Grace Olson - There is Something Magical about Horses and Sheep that dissolves your sadness and brings you back into the light S1 E19

(Intro music): 0:00

Barbara O’Brien: 00:14

Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien. I'm an animal trainer and photographer and I'd like to welcome you to The Empathetic Trainer.

(Music): 0:20

Barbara O’Brien: 00:27
Hello, this is Barbara O’Brien and you're listening to The Empathetic Trainer podcast. Today's guest is Grace Olson. Grace is a therapist, author and animal lover. She's written the best-selling book, The Yard, a book called The Farm, and she just published her first children's book called Merlin Finds His Magic. Grace Olson assists terminally ill people to find inner peace and their true, infinite self. She's assisted by her horses and her sheep. She's been a qualified bodywork therapist for almost 30 years and is also an ILM level certified coach. Okay, hello, Grace.

Grace Olson: 1:02
Hi.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:04

We're so glad to have you here on our podcast today. Boy, we have so many topics to cover. I think you know we'll have to have several podcasts just to get through them, but we'll start with some of the first things. One, I'm here in rural Wisconsin, so it's pretty hot today. It's very, very green, very wet. We've had a lot of rain. I love talking to people from different parts of the world. So let's talk a little bit about where you are and what it's like where you are.

Grace Olson: 1:27
So I'm in Leeds and that's West Yorkshire in the UK and it's in the middle of well, so where I actually live right now here in this house, this is closer to the city, so I'm near a really lovely place called Chaparlatan. It's got lots of cafes and things like that, but literally five minutes that way is where my fields are with my horses and my sheep and it's just beautiful countryside. So, it's an interesting. Leeds is interesting because you've got city and incredible the Dales, countryside right next to each other. They have both.

Barbara O’Brien: 2:04
That sounds lovely sounds lovely, yeah, um, all of us.  Um, well, certainly my husband and I were like we love British television. I know that sounds so silly, but like we love watching British television and then trying to figure out where the shows are taking place. Um, and Yorkshire certainly comes up in a lot of wonderful television, so it's pretty great.

Grace Olson: 2:24
I think Yorkshire is the most beautiful part of England.

Barbara O’Brien: 2:27
Well, I can say that about Wisconsin. It's definitely the most beautiful. I think my other states would differ, but you know how it is, that's really neat, all right. Well, tell me a little bit about the animals that you have right now, so your horses and your sheep.

Grace Olson: 2:45
I have got two horses which belong to me, but I look after three. And I have five pet sheep and a dog. A dog's just there in the city that you can't see.

Barbara O’Brien: 2:58
I have three, and they're all like right here, you know. What kind of dogs do you have?

Grace Olson: 3:03
Just have the one, she's a greyhound.

Barbara O’Brien: 3:05

Oh lovely. They're kind of cats. Greyhounds are big cats.

Grace Olson: 3:11
Yes, very much.

Barbara O’Brien: 3:12
That's cool. And so, when you say pet sheep, you know now most people when they think of sheep, they think they're really dumb, which of course they're not. And they kind of have this idea that they just stared at everything, which they have good reason to be, you know, worried about their environment, but if you give them a safe environment, they're pretty relaxed about things. Tell us about your pet sheep.

Grace Olson: 3:34
So my pet sheep, they're all little boys, all of them were destined to be on people's dinner plates, but they came to me for various different reasons and they're just amazing and their therapy sheep and they've been on the television, and they help. I mainly work for people who are terminally ill. So, they do a lot of good work, making people feel happier in their worst time of their lives.

Barbara O’Brien: 4:04
So what is it about sheep that makes them good therapy animals? I mean, I know that I go sit with mine and I sit with them and, like our heart rates start to match and I relax, and I get calm. But most people don't have that opportunity.  So, what made you decide? You know sheep could probably work really well to help people. Please tell me how that started, what that story is about.

Grace Olson: 4:25
Well, it was an accident. So, the associates that I got were a pair called Bambi and Merlin, and so what happened was I was doing a therapy session for this lady. She was so depressed, it was awful, and so the therapy session was with my horses, because I do equine assisted coaching, and then, out of corner of my eye, I could see Merlin, and it seemed pretty, so bent and just know, you were just being say, I can do that better than those horses, and he just, he just walked up and he pushed himself into the woman and so she bent down to cuddle him and she laughed and she hadn't laughed for a year because she was extremely depressed. She wasn't so nearly ill, she had other problems, and so that's how sheep therapy happened, because Merlin decided he was going to make it happen.

Barbara O’Brien: 5:21
I believe, that.

Grace Olson: 5: 23

Yeah, they're so wise, they know how to be with each person. I've noticed, because with some people they're just, they're a bit, they can be a bit rough you know they're sort of they're a bit head bussy, but not massive, just having a laugh, because with other people they're very gentle and very calm and so they they give what the person needs.

Barbara O’Brien:  5:44
I believe that. I have seven pet sheep Humphrey Bogart, Ingrid Bergman, Jimmy Stewart, Gary Cooper, Jean Arthur and then there's a giant Suffolk and her name is Lady Margaret, because she's the boss of everybody, and then a really old one now named Beatrice, who's like the friendliest one, but I understand that completely and people. I've been learning about calming signals in horses, how horses show stress and how they show a release of stress, and how horses communicate. Every action an animal does is communication. So, I've been learning how horses communicate more and more, although I've been a lifelong horse person and then I started to apply the same principles to the sheep and I'm sure, as a person who's aware of your sheep and how they act and behave, you've seen the same things. So it makes sense to me what you're talking about, how a sheep that is acclimated to humans and doesn't have a fear of them because they've been properly socialized would definitely be able to come up and kind of read that person's energy and then decide how to be around them, just like horses do. Do I need to fear you?  Am I going to be comfortable with you? What do you need from me?  I mean whoever looks at a sheep and thinks the sheep might be going. What do you need from me? But in a way, from your experience, that seems to be what's happening. Correct?

Grace Olson: 7:06
Absolutely. Absolutely, that's exactly what they're thinking. Yeah, so it's just so in tune.

Barbara O’Brien: 7:15
Well, I noticed that horses will lick their lips when they're regulating themselves again and that had to do with blood flow rushing to their muzzle from stress, and then the release of stress makes them want to lick their lips and salivate and things like salivate Can't think of the word, but I never thought about it until I started studying it and the sheep do the same thing. So, when something scares them, and then they regulate again, like oh, we're okay, they lick and chew just like a horse. And I thought well, they again like oh, we're okay, they lick and chew just like a horse. And I thought well, they're both prey animals. That makes perfect sense. So that was really interesting to me to watch that. And then how they communicate with each other as herd animals and, you know, move in a group. So, the, the head butting the as like, um, I'm trying to get your attention. That makes perfect. You know the sense to me. And if they wanted to hurt you, they they certainly could. If they have horns, if they're quite large. But it sounds like your sheep are so acclimated and probably just wonderful souls.

Grace Olson: 8:14
They are. They are very special souls.

Barbara O’Brien: 8:16
Yeah, one more thing about the lick-lipping. Lick-lipping. Okay, start over again Lip-licking. I noticed it in chickens. I had no idea. I have chickens but I'm raising a new flock and I'm using attunement with them, so I'm teaching them to like, be used to me and want to be around me, and kind of a consent, like the chicken has a choice. Does that make sense?

Grace Olson: 8:38
That's great.

Barbara O’Brien:

When, when they get nervous, and something happens. The chickens do the same thing, and I didn't know birds, I haven't studied birds at all so gotta talk to a chicken person about that one someday.

Grace Olson: 8:50
Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 8:51

But all kinds of mammals and birds probably can work as therapy animals if we let them.

Grace Olson: 8:56

Absolutely, definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:00

So how does it work with horses? When you say you're a coach with horses, how does that work?

Grace Olson: 9:05
So that was in the ILM coaching course that I did. They included.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:12

ILM, just so that people don't know what that means.

Grace Olson: 9:14
It's International Leadership and Mentoring. It's an English certification for coaching. I'm sorry, the institute of leadership and mental and um, uh, so part of that course was learning horse body language in relationship to somebody having therapy. So somebody say is there with the horse and the horse basically helps you to see what the person isn't saying through their reaction to the person, not necessarily mirroring the person, but just reacting to the person.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:53
Can you give us an example I mean, you know, of a story that anonymous, but can you give us an example of what you mean by that, so that if you're not a horse person you have kind of an understanding.

 
Grace Olson: 10:07
So one of the most, uh, remarkable sessions I ever had was, um, this lady came for some coaching. She is an artist and has a lot of self-doubts and she'd also been very badly bullied by her husband, and she'd been bullied at school. So, she had a history of just low, very low self-esteem. And so, to build up her self-esteem, um, I set up an obstacle course in our little school and I invited her to go around it with our most chilled out, wonderful, lovely horse. Who's this? It was a really old man, he's actually he's in my books, this particular horse, and he is usually the most kind, chilled out, easy to be with animal. And yet with her he kept bashing her, pushing her out of the way, and he was behaving like I'd never, ever, seen him behave like that ever. And so that's what brought out of her, all of her. Because I didn't know she'd had this history of the whole history. I just knew she had low self-esteem at that point. But he showed me she has no boundaries, nothing. So he couldn't respect her as a leader and he couldn't allow her to take him around this obstacle course, because she didn't have faith in herself, and he was showing that up by bashing her and being able to bash her, and I had to step in because he was going to literally walk over her, and so that then triggered the conversation of her history of really quite horrible abuse, actually, which she probably wouldn't have spoken about had it not been for this particular horse showing her what she was, which was somebody that didn't have any self-care, no boundaries.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:08

Wow, so over time, over time, was it helpful for her to work with him?

Grace Olson: 12:16

Yeah, it made her think differently about herself and yeah, she's now a quite prolific artist. She's selling more because she values herself more and she's in a much better relationship now. She's remarried and her life's different.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:34

Well, horses can do that for sure. You know all animals, but horses are really a special gift that way. Never mind the cat there.

Grace Olson: 12:41
That's brilliant.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:43
Yeah, that's Willow. That's her latest cat, who just came to live with us, and she's pregnant, so we don't do kittens, but this will be the first time in a very long time we're going to have a litter, because that's how she showed up. Anyway, she's telling me obviously you're not paying attention to me, and I need something right now. And there she goes. All right. So when you talked a little bit about terminally ill people or people that are facing crisis like that, how do you find the horses and sheep help them cope? I mean, it's got to be a terrible place to know that your life is going to end sooner than you would want. For sure, and you know about it.

Grace Olson: 3:27
Yes, and so what I try to do is help them realize that knowing that they have a terminal illness is actually the best gift that they could have, because we are all going to die, and it's better to prepare now really, and it's better to prepare now really, you know. So, the horses or the sheep? Because the horses and the sheep they're just living free. I don't force any of them to be involved, they choose. So, whichever animal comes into the session, the key is mainly I have to listen first to the person, because not everybody's ready for the spiritual revelations, but for those that are, then the deepest work I can offer them is the opportunity to realize that, beyond our limited sense of self and using our senses, we are infinite beings. We're more than this smallness and knowing that you are dying is an opportunity to acquaint yourself with what you really are, so that when you leave your body and leave everything here behind, you'll be more comfortable. Not everybody's ready for that sort of thing, but it is possible to gain that with horses and sheep.

Barbara O’Brien: 14:57
Do you find that the horses and the sheep know that the person is ill? I mean I, found that with dogs,

Grace Olson: 15:03

I think so you know. I think they do, because so one example is that this lady came up to our place and she had liver cancer and my ginger horse, who's quite aloof, she's not really somebody that wants to come and be petted she marched straight over to this woman and put her nose on where this woman's liver is, so she went straight for where the tumor was. So, whether she can, whether they have a smell, which they potentially, you know, I imagine there is a smell, but whatever it was, she sensed it and she knew. And just that small act of her putting her nose on the tumor, that woman, she cried, she released such deep sorrow and she died with a smile on her face. So, her family let me know she had an amazing death.

Barbara O’Brien: 15:58

Wow, well, I do believe horses can smell things. I've just learned this summer that their factory system is as good as dogs. And horses could be trained to do scent work. If, you know, if the horse wanted to, you can shape the behavior. Cause dogs’ certainty can sense it. I tell the tale quite often about a dog we used on set. We used him all the time, wonderful acting dog. Had a great life, loved his life. You know, fun, fun, fun dog. A little Nova Scotia Duck Toller Retriever. And one day we were doing a job on set. I hadn't used him for a while, and he wouldn't work. He just wouldn't work. He kept wanting to go back to his owner and normally he loved the job. It was like the most fun in the world. You know, you get treats and it's like attention. But he could not leave his owner's side. And um, it was so strange and uh, I said you know, dog is done, you know we got enough. And they didn't. I wasn't going to push the dog because he was obviously stressed, so like that's, that's good, we're done, you know. And so, uh, later within a week, the fellow um called me and told me he had pancreatic cancer, and he didn't know, he didn't know the dog knew the dog was like I have to stay with you, I'm with you, I can't be away from you.

Grace Olson: 7:02
Wow.

Barbara O’Brien: 7:03

And then you know, sadly not too long after the fellow died, but the dog knew and I've seen that a couple times now, so like if your dog is sniffing you weird times ago but, but I mean just like it's amazing what animals tell us if we're listening, Because, as mentioned before and I think I picked this up from Lockie Phillips, who is a horse person every form of movement is communication. So, everything your animal is doing. They're trying to communicate with you.

Grace Olson: 17:36

Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 17:37

That's pretty cool. All right, let's talk about your books. You've got quite a you know three books out now, and then we are going to talk about your television appearances and all that cool stuff that's happening for you. I'm really excited and happy, but what motivated you to write your first book? And let's talk about that what's the name of your first book and what it's about.

Grace Olson: 17:56

My first book is The Yard: How a Horse Healed My Heart. And I started that in lockdown because I couldn't do my therapy work. I had nothing to do and I just I wanted to do something to help people feel better. So, I went on Facebook and there are. You know, there's loads of horsey Facebook groups so on one particular Facebook group, I just wrote this little story of this quite cheeky old horse that I've been looking after. She was a really funny horse and it got so many likes and comments that that made me think, oh, I can do more of this. So, then somebody suggested why don't you set up your own Facebook page? So, I did that, and so I decided every week I'm going to write a short story of of how I got back into riding as an adult, because I was riding as a child. Then I had a break and then I got back to it as an adult and, um, and it was just so, it became so popular. It was unbelievable. It was like the stuff of dreams. People would send me messages. I look forward to your little story every week. It's keeping me going, and you know I was getting hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, literally, of messages.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:11
That's fantastic.

Grace Olson: 19:13
It was wow. It made me cry, like every day there'd be several messages.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:19

People related. Obviously, you know you were living an experience that they could relate to.

Grace Olson: 19:24
Yes, it was just wow. So, then I thought, well, why don't I write a book? So, I wrote the book.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:30
Yeah, and you figured out a way to get it published and distributed, because that's incredibly hard.

Grace Olson: 19:37
It was so hard, it was so depressing. Oh my gosh, because obviously you have expectations, don't you? There I was thinking well, it's so popular on Facebook, it'll just get published. So, I wanted it to be really good, so I worked with the top editors in the UK.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:56
Oh, that's great.

Grace Olson: 19:57
Yeah, they all worked at Random House Penguin and the Top. They were the Top.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:03
Oh, I'm familiar, I mean, with Penguin and Random House.

Grace Olson: 20:08
So it was hard work working with an editor, but they really helped me to get the book into a very, very good shape. So, then it was ready to submit to agents. Oh, the first rejection. It it like a knife in my heart. And then, and I was so I was shocked because I honestly was thinking but why not, why do you not want my book?

Barbara O’Brien: 20:33
Well, yeah, you have a story that resonates with so many people especially, you know, when I was working with Penguin and Random House, it was like how big is your social media, how big is your following, you know? Like that was really, really important, right, and it seems to me like you had this huge following, all this support, da, da, da, da um, it seems strange that they would have turned you down.

Grace Olson: 20:54
Yeah, they're saying that it's just not interesting enough um, but not horse and so well, that's what I thought. So I thought, right, I'll approach somebody else. So basically I approached 20 different agents and got rejections from all of them wow so, so, oh my god, it was so depressing and um. But I was showing all of this on Facebook because, as well as posting my stories, I was posting about myself,

Barbara O’Brien: 21:24

Yeah.

Grace Olson: 21:25
So everybody was saying, just keep going, ignore them. And then somebody said, why don't you self-publish? And it was like a light bulb, and I thought, well, yeah, why not?

Barbara O’Brien: 21:35
Right.

Grace Olson: 21:37
And so it was just absolute, pure luck that I heard about the company that I've self-published with. They're called for self-publishing partnership. All of them used to work for again, like Penguin and you know the top; so, they've worked in the industry. They're a group of old men and they are absolutely brilliant, the most fabulous. I don't know if you've ever seen the English Program Blast of the Summer Wine. I sort of think they're like that. They're just lovely and they know the business. So, they produced the book for me and because I already had such a big following on Facebook and I have actually learned advertising years ago, so I knew how to market myself.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:25
Oh, that's the key isn't it? But that's great.

Grace Olson: 22:27
Oh yeah, um, so the book just flew. I mean, the book sold out on the day of publishing. Um, yeah, the day of publishing, it sold out. We had to do an emergency print run the same day.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:43
How encouraging for people who want to get the story out there.

Grace Olson: 22:46.
Yes.

 Barbara O’Brien: 22:47

That's fabulous.

Grace Olson: 22:48

Self-publish.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:50
I actually have a book that was published in 2014 by Penguin Random House that's why I thought it was funny you brought it up and it's a photo book called Dog Face. It's dog portraits. There's no text except their names.  It's very, you know so, not a writer. And you know it sold some. But they lost money on me, you know. So that's. I can just say, yeah, I made them go broke, you know. But I wish in some ways like that was really cool at the time, you know, oh, Penguin. But now I would if I was going to do something again, even though they don't want me. But if I was going to do something again, I would go the route you're talking about, because there wasn't a promotion, there wasn't anything that helped tell the story, get it out there. Now, if it's out there at all, it's in dollar bins at the grocery store, so you're much more successful not using a big publishing house, so maybe that was a good thing.

Grace Olson: 23:42

Yeah, I definitely think so, because, unless you're lucky, they aren't going to put. They cannot possibly put a load of effort into every single person that they publish. It's not physically possible, so you have to. Even if you're published with somebody, you still have to put in 50 ton of effort and I just think they're taking such a massive chunk of your money.

Barbara O’Brien: 24:05
Yeah sure.

Grace Olson: 24:07

It's just not fair. So, yeah, yeah, this way’s good.

Barbara O’Brien: 24:11

That was your first book that's pretty cool. So then, what book came after that?

Grace Olson: 24:17
So after that was actually the children's book Merlin Finds His Magic, because I was procrastinating editing the next book, which is The Farm: My Journey Deepens. That came out a few weeks ago in June. Yep, and that's the follow-on from The Yard.

Barbara O’Brien: 24:37
Okay.  

Grace Olson:

I thought it was amazing. I wrote The Yard and then loads of people were asking for a sequel. How did people get that?

Barbara O’Brien: 24:47
Obviously, you've got something that is resonating, that's important to share, because people aren't going to care about it if they didn't relate to it and gain something from it. So, you are offering a gift to people through your books.

Grace Olson: 25:01
I feel it's part of my service, my therapy, because the books are very comical, they're very similar in nature to James Herriot, Bill Bryson. Gerald Durrell, the comedy is first and foremost, but they do have a very deep theme and they are helpful for people to transform their own lives. So, for me it's just an extension of my therapy work, these books.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:28
That's great. What a gift. Appreciate that. Let's talk a little bit more about the children's book. How did that go about getting it illustrated? The covers of your other books, the artists that did the covers of The Yard and The Farm they're just incredibly beautiful.

Grace Olson: 25:41
She's amazing.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:49
The artwork on Merlin is um, really fun. So how did you they pull all that together? Because that children's books have to be concise, and aren't they, a certain number of pages and it's like a whole thing right.

Grace Olson: 25:55
Yes, I had no idea. I thought, oh yeah, I'll just write a children's book, it'd be really easy.

Barbara O’Brien: 26:01
I think it's harder, much harder it is.

Grace Olson: 26:05
It's really hard because, you're right, you have to fit into a certain age bracket and that certain age bracket needs a certain amount of words and a certain amount of illustrations, whereas with a novel you can just go on and on as long as you like, but you have to be really regimented. So again, I worked with an editor who is herself a very successful children's author, and she also works for I can't remember which, but she's a top editor. So, she absolutely whipped me into shake. But finally, it all got together, and it's been well loved by adults as well as children.

Barbara O’Brien: 26:55.
That's neat, yeah, so if, how did? Let's go back a little bit, because I forgot to ask this in the beginning. I usually ask in the beginning how'd this all get started? Like what made you wake up as a little kid and go? My mission is to help people through animals. I mean, how did that? You know, like, how did these things happen, and can we talk about? You know, sometimes I find that people who are so helpful to other people have been through some stuff themselves, that people who are so helpful to other people have been through some stuff themselves. So, when someone says I'm hurting, I hurt the person. Who's listening can go. I know, as opposed to not understanding what that person is going through. Like you already have, you've lived through some stuff too. You can relate. So, if you want, to talk about that. It might be really helpful for people.

Grace Olson: 27:40
So it's all in my. Actually, my childhood miseries are all in The Farm. Um, because I was bullied at school and for some reason I don't know why because my parents were. You know, it was a very ordinary family. My mum was very lovely. My dad, who's a bit distant, as a lot of dads can be, but he was still, you know, he was there, but I never felt I could tell them what was happening. So, I was bullied relentlessly for years until I took an overdose and wanted to kill myself. So, I suffered from this deep, hideous depression for so long, from this deep, hideous depression for so long. And then, at the same time, I saw my granddad dying of cancer and my other granddad died of cancer. My grandma died of a stroke and a heart attack and then other family members died, mainly from cancer. There was a lot, you know, when I looked at my friends who were not experiencing any death, it was almost like every few months I was at a funeral.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:45

Wow, and how old are you at this time?

Grace Olson: 28:46
For start said the best falls in around 12. Yeah, and continued for a few years.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:52
Yeah, so then your whole family was being affected, because your parents would be affected, you know, greatly by deaths of people close to them as well. So then it's kind of a whole thing at the time right?

Grace Olson: 29:03

Yes, it was very depressing, hard.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:07

But did you feel? Oh sorry, did you feel like, since they were going through stuff, that was part of the reason you couldn't talk to them because, like, oh, they're already so troubled, or it wasn't like that?

Grace Olson: 29:15
No, I just, I don't know. I just automatically hid what I felt, um, and so what I'm hoping is that in my book, if there are any other parents who have lost a child to suicide, I hope that they will see it's not their fault, because sometimes, you know, I couldn't tell my parents. But I could have done. But but for whatever reason, I chose not to so and it wasn't my parents’ fault. It's just how it was yeah and so it's bad enough to lose your child to suicide without feeling guilt as well um for sure I'm hoping to reach people like that with my books as well

Barbara O’Brien: 29:57

Yeah.

Grace Olson: 29:58

So so yeah, I had a lot of. I had a life full of heartbreak and sorrow a real pain.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:06
Yeah no, it's a lot on your shoulders for being so young, for sure so.

Grace Olson: 30:10
So I feel I got into massage by accident, because my first work with people was normal, like sports massage, and then that grew because I learned a particular type of massage that is appropriate for somebody with cancer. So, I then got work in nursing homes and via hospital referrals and so then my work just grew naturally to supporting people who are dying and because I've seen a lot of death and felt a lot of fear and sadness, I'd been set up to. This is my sole person.  

Barbara O’Brien: 30:50

Wow. Wow, how old were you at that point when you figured out that this is something I can help people with?

Grace Olson: 30:56

Well, I started my massage work in my early 20s and I think it was late 20s, 30, that I realized where my work was going. And then now I'm 50, I feel it's growing even more in a more spiritual way, because before it was all very physical getting rid of excess fluid, boosting their immune system, helping them very practically with their chemo and everything. But now, having gone through more of a spiritual journey myself, I'm learning more about the fact that any moment now you know any moment I have to be ready. I could die like that. I have to accept that this body is just a vehicle, and it can stop at any time. And it's about finding that inner peace, to know that you can drop your body and continue. I want to help people who are in that stage of fear, oh I'm dying, ah to go beyond that fear and find peace, because beyond our personalities and beyond our, I want this or I'm afraid of that, or what you think and your likes and your dislikes, beyond all that piffle rubbish, there is this stillness and it's permanently still and it's permanently there and we all are it and we all can be it, so that when our life ends which it is going to, that's the only thing guaranteed you can go with peace and, whilst you're still alive, live in a much more peaceful way.

Barbara O’Brien: 32:41
Well, that's where the animals can come in the animals can help find the stillness and being in nature. I I feel our disconnect from nature is so sad. I'm so blessed to live where I live. You know I'm surrounded by the countryside, and I had to go to the city for work. It's like 75 miles away. So, when we go in to do the animal actors and stuff, to drive into a city and you know concrete and buildings and people and noise, and we go, do the job and it's all great. But by the time we come back and we cross back into Wisconsin from Minnesota and we get into the rural, we're back into the rural, I just feel myself go, you know because, and so I understand how animals, like with horses, when you're trying to get in attunement with them, it's letting go and getting into a place of quiet stillness so the horse can be congruent, so you're what you're saying and and trying to be matches what your body's actually doing, and so getting to that place of stillness and calmness is, um, great. It's hard for someone who's like a border collie with me, you know, and like to sit still and not have the this, this, this, this, this. You know I'm learning that from my horses more than I ever did before. And. I and learning how to breathe, the, the body work. You talk about things like that. I think that, hopefully, people are getting more information about how to get there, how to get to that peaceful stillness, if they want it and then to touch back on the suicide that you went through. We've had our own brushes with it and our people that are close to me and at the time and everyone is okay. So, this was years ago and everybody's okay. That was in my circles. I'm really grateful, but I had no idea that this person was that unhappy. They did not talk about it. When I got a warning from somebody that knew them and loved them and said I'm really worried about this person, I'm very concerned, I literally went to the internet like how do I help? And it said the person's resources aren't keeping up with their pain. So, they have so much pain that the resources aren't keeping up. You need to increase the resources. You need to figure out a way. What do they need? What resources do they need to help diminish the pain? And so immediately called the school and said I'm worried for this person, I'm coming, you know. And they went and pulled him out of class and kind of got the process started to helping the person. Because somebody had noticed a peer had noticed someone their same age that you know the words were coming from them, that were ideations and I didn't even know the word ideation, like you're so blindsided. But you know, if the person's notable because they're, you know, they're like struggling to tell you. So, you're right, it is not the parent’s fault, it is no one's fault you know, and so I'm grateful you're here, I'm grateful that somehow you must have gotten some help at some point, because you're still here.

Grace Olson: 35:45
Yeah, I've got a lot of really, really good help. Good help. I met an amazing woman who transformed my life and thanks to her that, you know, I used part of what she taught me to help for this, so kind of like.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:56
So kind of like, your pain was a catalyst to this life where you're able to be a life of service, which we're grateful for that you can do that a lot of people choose not to uh put themselves out there and you know that's just just not their thing.

Grace Olson: 36:09
Yeah, it's not for everyone.

Barbara O’Brien: 36:11
No, no, and.

Grace Olson: 36:13

We all have a purpose.

Barbara O’Brien: 36:13
Yeah, no, exactly, and I think if you give animals the chance, they will too. I mean, people can look at a flock of sheep and not think a thing about it, but I look at them and go. I want to know every one of you,

Grace Olson: 36:25

Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 36:26

And I want to practice attunement, which is like if I'm still in quiet, even though they're afraid of humans to a point because of the way they've been handled, will they come around? And if you're quiet and you're still, it would cattle almost everything. Eventually, it is going to be curious, because you're giving off the energy of I'm no threat, I'm not coming for you, I'm not reaching for you. Why do cats always go to people that don't want them around? You're fascinating, you know. Exactly. Well, that's pretty cool, so let's you have you had written somewhere about your goal of having a therapy farm. You want to talk about that a little bit.

Grace Olson: 37:03
Yeah, so at the moment I rent the land that we have, so it has limitations, obviously, because it belongs to somebody else, and so my ideal way of life now would be if, if I can earn loads of money from my books, then I can treat terminally ill people for free, because obviously I still I need an income.

Barbara O’Brien: 37:24
Sure.

Grace Olson: 37:25

I want, I want to help people, because people that are terminally ill can't work and they need the extra support and it's not available. You have to pay for it, but they can't afford it because they aren't working.

Barbara O’Brien: 37:38
It's a cycle yeah.

Grace Olson: 37:41
Yeah, so what I'm hoping for is that my books will gain enough momentum so that can be my income stream, so that I can do this work for free. And then what would be really, really awesome would be if I could afford to buy my own land. It's very expensive in the UK, especially in Yorkshire, yeah so, but you know, I really do believe that if it is meant to be, it will happen somehow.

Barbara O’Brien: 38:12
Oh, I'm in complete agreement on counting on things like that. I count on miracles every day, so I understand that. I understand that. Well, all right. Well, I think we're good to the part of the show where I'm going to ask some questions. Well, I've been asking questions all along, but these are questions that I sent you. This is an idea that we borrowed from Tim Ferris's book Tribe of Mentors, and I sent you a list of 20 questions, and you picked out the five. Five of them that that we can ask you about, and so I think we'll just plunge right on into that, all right. So one of your questions was what book would you recommend and why so?

Grace Olson: 38:48
The book that I absolutely love. It's a children's book actually. It's called, Can I Get there by Candlelight and it's just, it's so thought provoking. But even now, to this day, I still wonder about that story and I wonder was it actually somebody's real experience and what really happened there? And it's just, it's magical.

Barbara O’Brien: 39:14
What's it about?

Grace Olson: 39:15
So it's about this girl who she's living in a house with the parents, and she's got a pony and it's like a coach house while their new house is being built. So, she goes riding on her pony, she goes through the estate, and she ends up going through like a portal, I suppose, and she ends up back in time. So, the old house that's all crumbling and that actually isn't really there anymore, is in its full glory. And she meets this young girl that lived there at the time and that they just build up this friendship and then every night she goes back home to her real time.

Barbara O’Brien: 39:57
Wow.

Grace Olson: 39:58
And I don't want to ruin the story because it has such a shocking ending, but it's.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:03

What's the title again?

Grace Olson: 40:04

It is wow.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:05

So people can look it up.

Grace Olson: 40:06
It's called, Can I Get there by Candlelight?

Barbara O’Brien: 40:08
Okay, that sounds really interesting.

Grace Olson: 40:10
Oh, it really is, it's mind-blowing. It’s amazing.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:14
I'm going to have to look that up. All right. What is the most valuable thing that you've put your time into that has changed the course of your life?

Grace Olson: 40:24
This thing with my Clun Forest sheep. They were so nervy; they were I will.
There were about eight months when they arrived and they're particularly nervy breed and everybody on the sheep Facebook group said that I've made a mistake getting them and I'll never be able to handle them. And you know, I'm too stupid to connect with these sheep. Um, and I just I have to prove them wrong. So I spent it, took me nearly a year, but it was worth it because it taught me absolute patience, because you can't rush it with a sheep, you can't just go and grab them.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:05
Oh no.

Grace Olson: 41:07
Yeah, so I have to be quiet, I have to be calm and I have to prove to them that I was trustworthy and it's so worth it. They are so loving.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:20
Oh they are. Do you know all that? You know all the secret places they like to be scratched, like under their armpits because they can't reach, and kind of a little bit back here and under here and um, they're so, uh, people, everyone should have a pet sheep, I think

Grace Olson: 41:35

Yes, I agree.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:37

There's a lot to learn from them yes, all right um. What accomplishment are you the most proud of, and why?

Grace Olson: 41:46
I'm the most proud of being a self-published author because I could have given up. You know when all these top agents were telling me that my book wasn't interesting. You know nobody's going to want to read that.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:59
Wow, 20 rejections you said.

Grace Olson: 42:00
Yeah, 20. And that for most people, you just think well, they know what they're talking about. I'm so glad that I just thought actually, no, you're wrong, people do want these books.

Barbara O’Brien: 42:13

Obviously, yeah.

Grace Olson: 42:15

So I'm very glad that I continued.

Barbara O’Brien: 42:19
When I started being self-employed gosh back in 1987, I started a file and it says people who said no and are sorry now and I just put every rejection into that, you know. And now, when I'm doing really well and everything's great, I can go back and look, ha boy, are they sorry they didn't go with me because we got it going on. So that helps get through those dark times. So I know exactly what you're talking about. That's pretty great, All right. In the last five years, what new belief, behavior or habit has most improved your life?

Grace Olson: 42:53
I would say that the biggest belief that I have is to know now that I'm more than just this personality and this body. Knowing that I'm more than that has helped me to live life more fully in every way.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:07
You're talking about transcending when you die too. Is that what you mean?

Grace Olson: 43:12
Yes, so that we are not just about dying, but it's more about living. Once you know that you are more than just this body, you can be free from fear, and so you can dare to do more things.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:29
And fear does hold us back.

Grace Olson: 43:31
Yeah, so you can live your life more richly.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:36
When you refer to that, are you speaking more like a soul in a sense, how some people refer to as a soul, that is endless.

Grace Olson: 43:44
Yes.  

Barbara O’Brien: 43:45

Because souls, you can't see them. They're inside you, at least this is I believe and they go on forever.

Grace Olson: 43:49
Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:50

You know right, I mean that. Yes, that's where I'm coming from, but it sounds like we're on the same page yes then yes, you're right, because then fear, then death, if you know that and believe that, and then it isn't as scary I mean, it's always scary, I'm supposed on some level. But you know the work you're doing with people who are terminally ill and are aware, cause we all walk around, you know, blindfolded as far as the awareness normally of of how we're going to die or when, um, the people that have to face it, if they can feel that they do go on, it must be a small comfort or some comfort.

Grace Olson: 44:26

Absolutely, absolutely.

Barbara O’Brien: 44:28

Yeah, yeah, I also believe animals have souls, because I, I just that's how I have to roll or I just I can't bear it.

Grace Olson: 44:35

They definitely do.

Barbara O’Brien: 44:37

So, yeah, I mean, they may be different but, but everything, energy, everything yes, so yeah, all right. Um, what inspires and motivates you to do what you do and what is your true purpose in the world?

Grace Olson: 44:50
True purpose in the world is to help other people. That's what I really feel, and the things that help to motivate me and to do that are all of the wonderful animals that I have in my life. They are magical and I want everybody to know that.

Barbara O’Brien: 45:07
Yeah for sure.  Well, we're grateful and your books are helping people already. And now let's let's talk about your TV appearances, cause I'm with your new book and some more publicity and cool stuff is happening in your life and I'm so happy for you. Tell us about the Yorkshire vet and what that's like being on a TV show and and where I know they can watch it in the UK, and I'm sure that eventually it gets over across the pond to us and we'll be able to see it, you know, eventually. So, but tell us a little bit about that for people who are not familiar.

Grace Olson: 45:39

So, the Yorkshire Vet is all about Yorkshire Vets and it was based on the fact that the first Yorkshire vet was a guy called Peter who was one of the apprentices of James Herriot. Peter took over the James Herriot practice in Fersk with his partner, Julian Norton, so Peter and Julian were the first two vets on the show and it's all lovely, heartwarming. It's all about helping different farm animals and helping domestic pets, so he gets to see all the different people that own the pets as well as seeing the pets help the animals.

Barbara O’Brien: 46:20
Oh, what a legacy they're carrying on, because everyone knows All Creatures Great and Small, Now that PBS has the series out for the new generation which we all love and watch and relate to. So, it must be quite exciting to be part of that legacy.

Grace Olson: 46:37
It is. It's just incredible. It really is. And what I love about my bits is that because my bits are a bit unusual, with my sheep being therapy animals, you know they're not just the standard farm sheep. So, people are seeing. Julian the vet experience sheep in a different way as well.

Barbara O’Brien: 46:57
Oh yeah.

Grace Olson: 46:58
Nice. So, he's been very open-minded. He loves seeing the sheep, he loves to see that you can cuddle them, and he's done a meditation with them. Uh, so it's brilliant, so, we were filming today, actually this morning, um, and it's just. It is great fun, although you have to keep repeating things, so that's quite comical. You know, you'll say something and the camera woman, she'll say can you just say that again? But can you just move your head to that side.

Barbara O’Brien: 47:34
Yeah, the lighting. Lighting, you know, is show business.

Grace Olson: 47:36
Yeah, so by the time. You've said it about 50 times it can it feel like acting.

Barbara O’Brien: 47:44
Oh yeah.

Grace Olson: 47:45

Well, it doesn't with my bits, because my bits are not like emergency cases. When they're out there filming emergency cases they can't repeat it, obviously it is as it is, but when Julian comes to my place and is with my sheep, they thought the luxury is being able to get everything perfect. So, we have conversations over and over so it. So, I find it quite funny. Whenever I see Julian on our own without a camera, it feels weird to just have a conversation and not repeat it several times. That's really odd.

Barbara O’Brien: 48:18
Well, it's interesting that you said it changes his perspective on sheep, because normally when he's going to a herd of sheep it's a large amount of sheep they're not going to be as trusting of people, maybe as much as a pet sheep would be and so they're going to be more in a stage of concern and worry, right, you know, because especially if they need met, they need help because of a physical ailment. So they're not feeling good anyway. But your sheep, if you're, if you're visiting with them, and they're in good health, everything's fine. Being used to people wanting to be with people, that must be really different for him. I know my sheep shear teases me because my sheep aren't. They won't sit still when you're shearing because they don't panic, they don't have the the thing that when you get the feet off the ground they freeze like normal sheep, will my sheep go? Uh-uh, you're just, you're just the sheep shire guy and we can wiggle and mine are really fat and really big and he's, he's like hold, still dear, you know. He's like darn, those darn tame sheep, you know. But so, it must be very different for um the vet to see them in a different light.

Grace Olson: 49:26
Yes, it really opened his eyes. He was he was.

Barbara O’Brien: 49:28

How gratifying he's open-minded.  

Grace Olson: 49:31

Yes, he's a really lovely guy.

Barbara O’Brien: 49:33

And we could talk about goats all day long, because you want to talk about a smart animal now there's, you know yes, I've told, if your water, if your fence can hold water, it can hold a goat. Otherwise, your fence is not going to hold a goat, and we've learned that to be true as well.

Grace Olson: 49:47
That's why I won't have them.

Barbara O’Brien: 49:53
Well, I we appreciate that, um, that you are helping people through your books and through your work and, uh, through your Facebook page. So let's talk about all the ways and the best way for people to get in touch with you where they can find your books. Um, you know, like, kind of give me the lowdown on how we learn more about Grace Olson.

Grace Olson: 50:08
So the easiest. Well, I've got a website, graceolsonauthor.com, and that shows you all the different ways to buy my books in America and in England. I'm available on Amazon as well. That's the easiest place. I keep trying to get into Barnes Noble. I think the digital version of my books are available on Barnes Noble, but they haven't got my actual books solid books and Facebook really is the easiest place to keep up with all of my lovely sheep videos, and I do a lot of singing with my sheep.

Barbara O’Brien: 50:51

Oh, actually animals do like it when you sing, because of the way you're breathing.

Grace Olson: 50:54
I love it.

Barbara O’Brien: 50:55
It's a regulated breathing and it's a calmness. So yes, there's the sound, but it's also when you're singing. You're usually not agitated, at least most people. You know maybe some angry rock, but usually you're not agitated right. Usually when you're singing, there's kind of a happiness or or some good feeling coming from it. You know yes, and so um I do think that. Well, that's my own opinion. I don't think it's scientific, but I sing to my sheep, so I know what you're talking about. I don't know if they like it, but they come around.

Grace Olson: 51:27
Yeah, they love it, they love it.

Barbara O’Brien: 51:30
Okay. So, we'll have all of your links and social media information on the show notes. For The Empathetic Trainer, of course, but the best way is either through Facebook or Grace Olson author. Yeah, graceolsonauthor.com. Okay, well, this has been delightful Uh, finding another person who understands how obsessed I am with my sheep and how much I love them is good for my heart and, uh, I appreciate you talking about um how um help is out there If someone is feeling really, really depressed. Um, there are, there are places where you can um wherever you live, hopefully to find someone who's using animals as a form of therapy, and, just, you know, animals are so healing, so perhaps you could seek those kinds of people out, and if they're around you, they can seek you out. So, your words of encouragement that you can get through these difficult times and animals help you do that, it's kind of what we're all about, so we're grateful for that too. So, thank you, Grace, so much for being on the show today.

(Music): 52:31