Laura Carter - What Your Dog Wants is You - S2 E15

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Barbara O’Brien: 0:14

Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien. I'm an animal trainer and photographer, and I'd like to welcome you to The Empathetic Trainer.

Music: 0:20

Barbara O’Brien: 0:26

Hi, this is Barbara O'Brien and welcome to The Empathetic Trainer. Today's guest is Laura Carter. Laura is a dog trainer, pet advisor and author. Her specialty is designing activities for dogs that need restricted exercise. She wrote a book called The Vet Says Rest. Her passion for science-based dog training that works in real-life situations and her friendly and understanding approach provide the perfect learning environment for both dogs and humans. Well, Laura, that sounds like a good thing for dogs and humans. I'm glad that you're here with us. Thanks for being on the show today.

Laura Carter: 0:57

No problem, lovely to be with you.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:00

And where are you? I love listening to your accent. I could listen to you all day, because anytime someone has a different accent than Wisconsin Midwest, it's always fun. So, if you wouldn't mind sharing with us what part of the world, you're in and a little bit about that.

Laura Carter: 1:15

Yes, well, currently I'm living in Scotland, in the UK, but I've only moved here last June, so I haven't got a Scottish accent at all. I'm actually from down south of southern England.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:29

That's all wonderful to me. Was that a big transition?

Laura Carter: 1:31

It was, yes, yeah, it was a massive transition and I've had to completely change my business around, but it was quite nice because my brother's up here, so it's nice to be near a family. Yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:41

Sure. Oh sure, I understand that. Okay, well, let's start with that. Then let's talk a little bit about your business. What is it that you do?

Laura Carter: 1:49

Well, I help people when they can't get their dogs out for a walk. Or maybe they've got a dog that doesn't like going out for walks, so perhaps they've got anxiety or they're reactive, or they can just be. Sometimes the dogs that the owners find are a bit naughty, a bit much of a handful, and they just want to have a day at home doing bits and pieces, um, and it's a great way of interacting with their dog in a slightly different way, which actually overall improves the bond between them.

Barbara O’ Brien: 2:14

Oh, that makes sense yeah.

Laura Carter: 2:16

So, there's a lot. I mean, I've got two little chihuahuas here and they hate going out when it's cold and wet, so we always play games at home with them.

Barbara O’Brien: 2:25

Well, my Midwest United States audience and Northern United States audience are certainly going to relate to this, and then anybody else in a cold climate. In my case, because I have border collies, of course they want to go outside, but there's times when I don't want to go outside. So, we have a farm so I always go outside. But for, like, people that are in the city and don't have to go out and do chores, um, this sounds like a brilliant plan you know, so let me start at the beginning, though, because we are going to talk about that. But let's talk about you a little bit, about, like, how did this all start? Were you always a dog person, or you know how to just tell me from the beginning about little Laura and how that went?

Laura Carter: 3:02

um, yes, I've always been a dog person, always been around animals, um, we didn't get our first dog, our family dog, until I was about 10 years old, um, but before that we had cats, um, but it kind of developed from there. And then I say my career I've always worked around dogs, so I've worked in various kennels, um, and then I'd run a dog walking business for a bit, um, and then the dog training kind of developed. As I say, I've got twins, twin girls, and when they were little, it worked really really well running puppy training classes in the evenings. My mum used to look after the girls.

Barbara O’Brien: 3:38

Oh sure.

Laura Carter: 3:39

And it meant I could be with them all day, so that worked really really well. Um, I said, the twins are now 17, so obviously looking after them isn't a thing anymore, um, but yes, it's just really developed from there and I just love helping people with their dogs, um, and I think this kind of business has developed, for there being a real need for helping people when they can't get out with their dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 4:03

Yeah, you talked about different reasons and and um for one, yes, weather but uh, also perhaps a dog that might be healing from an injury, you know, or?

Laura Carter: 4:11

Definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 4:12

Yeah, but another part, a big part, um, especially for people in cities or more crowded areas, is reactive dogs and, um, as an animal actor trainer, um, we do auditions and so we meet all kinds of dogs. We'll see like 60, 70 dogs in a day and we have kind of a pre-screening thing that we have people fill out before they come and one of the questions is is your dog social and friendly around humans? Is your dog safe around other dogs? It doesn't have to be friendly or play. We don't need that; we don't necessarily want that but not reactive. So reactive dogs are struggling with anxiety, perhaps, right?

Laura Carter: 4:51

Yep, definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 4:52

And so, they're certainly not going to be happy on set either.

Laura Carter: 4:56

No, no, definitely not.

Barbara O’Brien: 4:58

So, I'm sure some people would love to learn more about how to help their dog work through the different anxieties so that they are able to be less reactive.

Laura Carter: 5:08

Yes, I mean I do more with the end. So, I kind of work on hand with a behaviorist. So, I don't actually do much of the reactivity side of it. I give owners that chance to breathe and do their own thing with their dog, which doesn't involve loads of training. So, I do a lot with people, kind of helping them at home, almost kind of that stress-free period, which is why I say my clients love working with me because I'm like right, let's just stay in, You'll be active dog. The behaviorist deals with the outside bit. We deal with having fun inside completely stress-free.

Barbara O’Brien: 5:45

So, you're actually building a relationship and what we call attunement, and that's the first step. Um, I work with horses, and I've been. I have horses and I'm learning a lot more all the time, especially when these cool people we have on the podcast. But, like you, couldn't take a uh, an anxious horse which is reactive you know he's a thousand pounds reacting to a new environment unless he had built a trust level that the horse feels that you're going to keep him safe, because if you don't keep him safe, he's going to keep himself safe. And so, working with the horse you have at the moment, instead of projecting what you want, and then working in where he feels safe. So like, yes, we work with young horses around other horses instead of taking them away until they build up enough confidence to go out of sight of, say, other horses, which horses are herd animals different than dogs. But I love the concept of where we're going to be in a safe environment, a low stress environment, and we're going to just build relationship. So, like we call it. Warwick Schiller is a famous horse trainer. He says relationship before horsemanship, so with in your case it would be like you know, relationship before um, I don't know what the word would be a dogs but you know handling the dog,

Laura Carter: 6:54

Yeah, yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 6:55

In the bigger world.

Laura Carter: 6:57

Definitely, yeah, yeah. And I'd say that's a big thing that I find a lot of pet owners struggle with. Is they, for example, want to teach their dog to walk nicely on the lead or come back when they call them, but trying to get the message across that actually just having fun and building that relationship with your dog, as you were saying, means you've got a dog that doesn't want to leave you.

Barbara O’Brien: 7:17

I love that. You've got a dog that doesn't want to leave you. You're much more appealing than anything else that's going on around you. Yes, and with dogs who, like um Ian Dunbar says, as sniffing is their world, you know that you've got to be pretty darn appealing.

Laura Carter: 7:34

Yes, definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 7:35

To want to. So, um, maybe you can give us some suggestions of what that looks like.

Laura Carter: 7:40

Um, well say the sniffing example you gave. There. We do a lot of scent work with the dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 7:44

Okay, like you can do this indoors?

Laura Carter: 7:47

Yep, you can do it inside. In fact, funnily enough, I say I was just doing some with my dog in the kitchen because it's a horrible day out there today. Yeah, um, and you teach them to go out and find a specific scent. So we use a Pacific Sands um brand of gun oil at the moment, which is what I'm training my dogs on, and basically they have to search for it, which is very natural to dogs, and then when they find it, they just put their nose on it, stay as still as possible that we call the freeze and then, once they freeze on the gun oil, they then earn treats for that.

Barbara O’Brien: 8:20

Wow, so that's like rewarding a behavior they enjoy.

Laura Carter: 8:24

Yes, yeah, they absolutely love it and it's a really great way of working together with your dog and it actually really mentally tiring them as well.

Barbara O’Brien: 8:35

I suppose.

Laura Carter: 8:36

So, I've got working yeah. Yeah so, my little working cocker. He'll run around in the woods all day, but a scent game in the kitchen. I can actually tire him out quicker in the kitchen playing scent work with him than running about.

Barbara O’Brien: 8:50

Huh, does it uh, and so you talk about how to do this in your book, like you demonstrate how yeah learn how to do it um yeah, let's talk about your book a little bit um the. The book is titled um sorry. The Vet Says Rest, which is great. I haven't received a copy of it yet because of how long, how far apart we are, oh yeah. But if you have one handy, please hold it up so everyone can see it.

Laura Carter: 9:14

Brilliant yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:15

Good, good.

Laura Carter: 9:18

So, I have, I've sat at my desk, and I've got.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:20

There, you go. All right. Where can people find that?

Laura Carter: 9:25

Amazon is the best place to get it.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:28

Okay, great.

Laura Carter: 9:30
I think they ship worldwide Okay.

Barbara O’Brien: 9:33

Okay. All right. And then so say you have a dog that, like a lot of people, some people who do dog sports, a dog will end up with a torn ACL or something, you know something just from the activity. And so, then they need to have an operation to surgery to correct it, and then so they have to be unrestricted rest where they can't literally run around. You know, do you have suggestions then that might be helpful for the dog that has that is slowly being rehabbed for his brain. To you know cause, if somebody put me in it you know. I broke my pelvis a couple of years ago Um, a horse said no, and I wasn't, I wasn't listening, which is part of this whole journey, cuz it was like you know, okay, what happened before. What happened, anyway, uh, I had to like literally not be as moving around. You know, I had to work on crutches for like eight weeks and it made me. You know that was hard for me as a human being who can, like read definitely so how do we make it more comfortable for a dog in that situation where they're slowly coming back to physical health?

Laura Carter: 10:36

We, I say I mean I've got four kind of main areas that I work with dogs doing stuff inside.

Barbara O’Brien: 10:41

Okay, let's go through that, that's great.

Laura Carter: 10:44

Yeah, so the first section is kind of I call it trick stroke training um.

Barbara O’Brien: 10:49

Sorry, say it again. Say again, please one more time trick.

Laura Carter: 10:52

It's kind of either tricks or training tricks or training okay training. So, yeah, it's little activities that you can do in the house that are caters for your dog's needs, so some of them could be done lying down, if necessary, if you've got a dog that can't stand up for long. Um, some of them you can even do while the dog is confined to a crate. You can be on the outside of the crate doing things like, for example, a nose touch, oh, which is where your dog touches his nose onto your hand.

Barbara O’Brien: 11:19

Yeah, no, that's. That's brilliant, because, uh, crate rest is the hardest and that's what you have to do in the beginning. You know when they're recovering from surgery.

Laura Carter: 11:26

Yeah, yeah. So, there's a lot of kind of tricks and things we can do there. Beautiful cat.

Barbara O’Brien: 11:33

Blossom. We don't need to see that. There we go.

Laura Carter: 11:36

So that's one side of it. Another activity we do is what I call equipment games, and this is getting the dogs used to various different pieces of equipment, so, for example, cones. So, you know, like the cone of shame, that they may need. Things like a muzzle or a ramp or other pieces of equipment that they might need in the future.

Barbara O’Brien: 11:58

Ok, that's a good idea, so they're not so stressed out, when you actually have to use it.

Laura Carter: 12:02

No, no, that's the idea.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:04

Because now you've made it a game.

Laura Carter: 12:06

Yes, so we do a lot of games associated with them. Then we also do a section. I do a lot of sensory work with dogs. So, if you've got a dog that can't go out and sniff and investigate the world, what we do is we bring things in for the dogs to investigate.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:24

Oh okay,

Laura Carter: 12:25

So, for example, where you say you've got your beautiful cats there, you could go to a friend's house, take a towel or something, rub it on their cat, take it home for your dog on rest, and they've got something really novel and new to sniff and investigate.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:40

Oh, brilliant, that's a really good idea.

Laura Carter: 12:42

Yeah, yeah, and you can do it with all sorts of things. So, we do it with, like, sheep's fleece or, again, being on a farm, I think you've got all sorts of bits and pieces that the dogs like to investigate, um, and we do it with all five of their senses. So, there's different things you can bring in for them to look. We do taster plates of different things they can eat and um, so yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 13:05

Explain that taste, taste of plate.

Laura Carter: 13:09

A taster plate. So what we do is, when we do a taster plate, if we take like a little shallow tin and in each section we put a very small amount of a novel food that's safe for your dog to eat, okay, so you could have, say, a little bit of grated carrot in one section, you could have some mashed potato in another section, and it's really interesting to watch the dogs investigate the different foods and try bits and pieces.

Barbara O’Brien: 13:37

Okay, so does this not cause? See, I'm thinking, I mean, that sounds great, right, how fun. But with some dogs, though, like I don't think they think very hard about it's, like it is gone so fast you know, but still, that was exciting, it would be pretty exciting.

Laura Carter: 13:53

Yeah, I mean most dogs do. Actually, they're slower at eating it than people think, okay, so it's quite interesting to watch them do it.

Barbara O’Brien: 14:03

I'm going to have to experiment. I think what happens with mine is there's three of them, you know, and we put down three dishes of whatever, because they, you know, I feed them whatever we're eating too, and, um, you know, if it's leftover and they're so competitive. I think there's a different dynamic going on there. But if you're with your single dog. I can imagine that it would be much more. Like you know, I mean cats have to sniff everything before they eat it.

Laura Carter: 14:25

They do. They're so fussy.

Barbara O’Brien: 14:27

Cats have to really make sure like is it edible, or a dog will eat a rock if you, you know, threw it. Yeah, definitely. Okay. So, we have the tricks and training, we have the work you can do in a crate, we have the food.

Laura Carter: 14:44

Yeah, the sensory stuff can do in a crate. So, we have the trickster training, then we have the equipment games, okay. Then we have the sensory things, which are all five of the dog senses, and it's just thinking about how we can enrich them in the house while they can't go out. And then the final S is the scent work. So, there's a lot of scent work games you can do, like we were discussing earlier, in the house, even with a dog lying down, so you can start the process of teaching them to stand, really still ready to indicate what we call on the scent, which is where they show you where the scent is.

Barbara O’Brien: 15:22

So, we can go and get an object that smells something different.

Laura Carter: 15:27

Yep, yep.

Barbara O’Brien: 15:28

Right, oh, it's true. Actually, what you're saying is very true, because when I meet a new dog who hasn't met me and he smells me, oh my goodness, it's like a wonderful overload, because they're like wait, okay, she's got dogs. Wait, she's got cats. One, two, three, four how many cats does she have? Right? And then she had, uh, she had toast for breakfast. Wait, what's on her shoes? I don't even know what that animal is, because they don't know what sheep are, you know. And they'll be like wait a minute, there's another animal. And then you know, and then this, and it's like I'm this, I'm this walking buffet of fascinating smells to dogs and, um, I let them sniff me all over and it's really, it's, you know, I mean it's fun, but I know what they're doing. And then when I come home from an audition and I have like 60 different dog smells on me, my dogs go oh, you did it again, didn't you? Uh-huh, yeah, like, they're just like. Yeah, we smell it. Fine, you know, we weren't there, you weren't giving us treats. I think veterinarians or people who work with animals have have the same, you know, their dogs, yeah, like, yeah, uh huh. Oh, I will say something funny though, Laura, because I have horses, and I have one horse that, um, uh, they're kind of from the plains of Montana out west, so they grew up on the range, they're Morgan horses, which is kind of a working small, um compact, sort of like your bigger ponies over there, and very clever, you know, like like Mustangs, if you can visualize, and so she's very sensory oriented because she worries about what is happening on the horizon there could be a bear, it could be a coyote, it could be, you know, whatever and so she's always watching. So, the way I connected with her to like get her to trust me over time, was I let her smell me from head to toe. I've never had a horse care so much, but usually with horses you're like no, get out of my face, this is dangerous. You know, you don't want your nose there and you do have to watch body language, you do not want your nose bit off, but I I was watching her body language, I can trust her, and she would sniff me from head to toe, you know. And then I noticed that when I did dogs somewhere else, came home, she would spend like 15 minutes because she had to like sniff, all of that, you know, and that's how she calmed herself, by deciding that I was going to be safe with her, you know. So, I think with a dog letting them, the sensory stuff sounds really important.

Laura Carter: 17:42

It is. It's really important for them. Yes, yeah, but I mean it's also. It's not just the sense of smell, it's things like for a dog on rest, giving them different textures to walk on or different areas to sleep, because some dogs on rest are confined to a smaller area and they may just have carpet and their bed, but actually putting things like cooling mats down which feel different and provide different temperatures for them, just gives them different options.

Barbara O’Brien: 18:11

Yeah, and different yeah then would you recommend different uh chewing text safe chewing textured things, you know.

Laura Carter: 18:17

Yeah, yeah, definitely, yes, definitely yeah. Safe chewing tech. Um, we do a bit of massage, a bit of grooming on the dogs because, again, if they've got injury, they may not be able to reach particular parts of their body to groom themselves.

Barbara O’Brien: 18:30

So that's good. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, okay, uh, can you recommend what kind of chew things that you feel are fairly safe for most dogs?

Laura Carter: 18:37

Um, I mean, I tend to use a lot of natural stuff with my dogs. Um, so they have kind of bones from the butchers that we get, um, just completely raw natural bones. They're great for cleaning their teeth. They love things like tripe sticks, and we get like hooves.

Barbara O’Brien: 18:54

Yeah, um oh my horse is always my horses, my horses, my dogs will chew on the horses trimming from the horses. You know they love that.

Laura Carter: 19:02

Yeah, they love that.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:04

Yeah, they're good in smell, but they love it yeah, they love it.

Laura Carter: 19:06

Yeah. Anything smelly.

Barbara O’Brien: 19:09

Yeah, no, that's good. Okay, huh, all right. Well, so when we have a dog that we're trying to work with on rest, like this, when the vet says rest or for whatever reason, what are the big mistakes that people make? I mean, what if? What if someone wasn't even thinking about like, oh, my dog might be really bored. Now he's causing trouble, you know, because, yes, he's anxious or whatever's happening, or hasn't been out for several days or whatever it is. You know what? What are the biggest mistakes that people make that the things that you talked about sounds like they can help rectify.

Laura Carter: 19:40

Yes, I mean one thing I find that a big mistake people make is they kind of almost give the dogs lots of chewy things to do, but a lot of these dogs, it's the one-to-one connection with their owner is what they want. Um, which is where the little training games and things that we play involved. It's all about getting them to interact with their owner rather than just a bit like a child. The difference between playing a game with the child rather than just putting them in the corner watching television or similar right.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:07

Oh yeah, I'd always rather rather have you, really truly, I mean until they get older and go like I don't want to, you know, mom yeah, yeah definitely yeah, but when they're young they definitely enjoy, you know attention.

Laura Carter: 20:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's a really important thing. Um, in fact, I mean, I'm working with a dog at the moment who his owners work from home, so they're at home all day with him, but they're obviously working. So, there's a lot of kind of we're having a few behavioral issues with him because he's not getting the one-to-one time that he craves, although his owners are at home all day.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:41

Right, so they're like what else do you want from us? Because it's you know, yeah, yeah, I'm sure they're lovely people too. It's just we just don't know, you know, we just don't know, like you know, what I mean. So, um, I'm sure this is really helpful. That's a good idea. Okay, I'm going to look at some of the questions that, uh, we were going to ask you about. Let's see, all right, so we talk, oh, all right, let's talk about wags without walks. Is that the same thing we're talking about right now?

Laura Carter: 21:15

Yes, I mean, that's Wags Without Walks. That will be a membership site that I'm going to be setting up very soon, hopefully launching beginning of May, and that will be something that then we get the members in, and they can then come in and have a whole bank of videos and they'll have access to me and there'll be members forums.

Barbara O’Brien: 21:28

Oh, that's great. I'm on several horse ones like that and that's how, because I'm so rural in my town has 63 people. You know, I don't have access to a lot of trainers, and I don't haul my horses and so being able to go on these forums, talk to other people with similar problems, communicate with people like yourself that really have kind of a system and principles and and um laid out an educational way, you know?

Laura Carter: 21:53

Yeah, yep.

Barbara O’Brien: 21:54

Cuz watching, I'm a visual person. I need to watch someone do something. I can't just read it, you know. So that's wonderful, uh, so, uh, this, this takes some time to get out anyway. So as soon as you have that up and ready, you know, be sure to let us know. We'll add it to the show notes so that people can.

Laura Carter: 22:13

Brilliant.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:14

You know.

Laura Carter: 22:15

Brilliant, yeah. Because again, it can.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:18

Sorry, Blossom she really wants to be part of this.

Laura Carter: 22:22

Um, yes, because I'm saying people, if they've got an anxious dog or a reactive dog or the dog with an injury, it can be quite isolating for them because they can't get out to meet other dog owners. Even if they're in the biggest city, you know they can't take these dogs out. So being able to connect and have that community online is important.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:41

Oh, I think so. Yeah, that's good. I have another thought, another what if somebody themselves is not able physically to get outside? Maybe the little dog goes out on the patio for potty purpose, but they can't get out and do the world as easily perhaps. So, this would be a really wonderful thing for them to modify it as much as they need to to make it work for them and their dog.

Laura Carter: 23:05

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I've got a client at the moment. She's got agoraphobia. So, can't get out, um, and she's got a lovely little dog that she's got for her companionship, um, and we do loads of work with them, um, and it's made such a difference to both of their lives because they can't go out for walks but they've got all these activities they can now do in her flat and they're both quite happy about it, which is lovely to see.

Barbara O’Brien: 23:31

I like that a lot. That would be very comforting if I was having different issues. To have a dog. That was part of my healing instead of causing more anxiety for both of us.

Laura Carter: 23:42

Definitely. Yeah, and also, I mean, I've had clients with all sorts of injuries. So, when it's really icy, I had somebody that broke their foot last year. Um, and her dog walker would take her dog out sometimes, but it wasn't every single day. So again, we adapted the exercises and I set her activities to do with her dog that she could do sitting on a chair. Um.

Barbara O’Brien: 24:04

Okay, well, let's, let's. Let's uh talk about one or two things. So, I'm sitting in a chair cause I broke my pelvis. Okay, thank God, that was a couple of years ago and I'm fine now. But and my border collie you know, it's a border collie Okay, so, lovely dog, but what? What could I be doing with with her that keeps her mind engaged? You know, while I'm sitting, I can't, it's not easy for me to get up at that point.

Laura Carter: 24:26

No, no. So, one of my favorite games is what we call the left- and right-hand game. So, the first step is you literally give your dog a treat from your left hand, then they get a treat from your right hand, then they get a treat from your left hand. So, they have got to keep switching sides and they've got to work out that if they hang around by the hand they've just had a treat from, they won't get another one. They've got to go around to the other hand. So that's the basics of the start of the game, and you could do that sitting in a chair, just dropping the treats.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:00

Yeah, because they're thinking they're thinking that. And then you're shaping a behavior which they love. Getting a behavior which they love. They are, yeah, yeah, getting a reward for shaping a behavior.

Laura Carter: 25:08

Definitely. And then we add in things like we'll have an object in front of us. So, the dog has now got to go get a treat from your left hand, go around the outside of the object and then go to your right hand and then back around the object to your left hand. Okay, um, and again, we can really develop it while the owner's sitting down and we could do it quite a big distance away if the dog's not on restricted exercise, because then it gets the dog running around while the owner is sat still.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:35

Sure, so when you're uh, I imagine there's a variation where you can hide something that they like to play with and then you say find it, or something too,

Laura Carter: 25:45

Yep, yep.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:46

I used to do that you know, we little toy that the dog loved, and you'd be like you'd hide under a pillow, or you had her a cushion. You know, you hide it in different spots. Now, I wasn't restricted, I was just trying to watch tv and the dog was bugging me, but it was like you know, okay, go find it. And then I always go like, oh, look how clever you are. You know, because she'd like burrow her nose or whatever it is and pull it out and she was so happy, like you know, look how clever I am, I found it, you know.

Laura Carter: 26:10

Yep, brilliant. I used to play a similar game when my twins were little and again when the weather was horrible, or we didn't want to go out if they weren't very well. Quite often I'd hide little teddies around the garden for my Jack Russell at the time to find we'd stand in the kitchen. He would run out in the garden, find all the teddies, bring them back. We stayed nice and dry, and he was tired afterwards.

Barbara O’Brien: 26:32

See, there you go. There you go I like yes, let's, let's talk about your animals just for fun. Why don't you tell us a little bit about all your animals that you have?

Laura Carter: 26:40

Yes, well, we've got all sorts of they'll start off, I've got four dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 26:43

Okay, let's talk about them.

Laura Carter: 26:44

Yeah, so we've got two chihuahuas um. I've got a dalmatian and I've got a rescue working cocker. So, a real mixture of dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 26:55

Yeah, they are, they are different, very different from each other.

Laura Carter: 26:57

Yeah, very different. Um, and I compete at scent work with the spaniel and the dalmatian, and my daughter competes at scent work with one of the chihuahuas.

Barbara O’Brien: 27:06

Oh, that's brilliant because I mean most chihuahuas I run across think I'm going to eat them I had to learn to change my energy because I was too much for those poor chihuahuas, you know.

Laura Carter: 27:17

Yeah, they're quite nervous, little dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 27:20

But if they're socialized properly and you know they're wonderful, incredibly smart and you know, they're wonderful.

Laura Carter: 27:28

Incredibly smart. Yes, really smart. Yeah, yeah, no, really smart. So, that's the dogs. And then we've got three cats. Two of them are quite elderly now. Again, one's a rescue. So, yeah, we've got the cats. Then we've got four alpacas.

Barbara O’Brien: 27:43

Oh, those are wonderful animals.

Laura Carter: 27:44

Oh, they're lovely animals. Yes, again, they're quite different to the dogs, um, because they're quite particular as to who they'll approach. So, they look nice and fluffy and cuddly, but they don't really like being touched and handled much.

Barbara O’Brien: 27:57

Yeah, they're discerning. They're discerning. Yes, that's what we call.

Laura Carter: 28:01

They are yeah, um. So, we've got them, and we've got chickens.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:03

I love my chickens.

Laura Carter: 28:05

Yeah yeah, chickens are great, and the fresh eggs are always a bonus.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:09

Always yeah, for sure they're fun to watch, they're interesting.

Laura Carter: 28:13

They're lovely to watch. Yeah, they're really good. Yeah, we've got two tortoises.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:18

Now that's interesting. Are they very old? Sometimes tortoises can get pretty old.

Laura Carter: 28:23

Yes, one of them is 10 and the other one's about he's a rescue. He's about 50 now, um.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:29

Isn’t that amazing?

Laura Carter: 28:31

Yes. Um, what else have we got? And then my daughter's got quite a few different animals. Um, she's got a bearded dragon and a leopard gecko. She's kind of into the reptiles.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:45

Well, we have a, a reptile specialist that we're going to be talking to, and she is a YouTube phenomenon when it comes to education, with, with, reptiles and snake. And, of course, the the name of that podcast is Can Lizards Love? Because you know, I'm just, I'm just not into it. I'm just like trying to understand, you know, and she says they can. So, you know.

Laura Carter: 29:06

Oh, okay, yeah, so I'm not really into the reptiles, but my daughter's really into them.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:12

I think that's great, and the scent work is cool. It's very popular growing sport here. The scent work yes, it's very much a growing sport.

Laura Carter: 29:19

It's here as well. Yeah yeah, but it's just so natural to the dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:23

Well, I think any dog can do it. You know any dog if you socialize and doesn't mind being in the environment where you go, I mean it's like the best game ever. I mean, how fun for a dog, you know. So.

Laura Carter: 29:32

Yeah, and also even on a lot of scent work classes and certainly the competitions. They're actually even suitable for reactive dogs, because you only have one dog in the space at a time normally.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:46

Oh, that's true, that's very true.

Laura Carter: 29:47

They are really good yeah yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:49

Because those sparky Jack Russell’s don't have to be nose to nose.

Laura Carter: 29:52

No, they don't um, yeah, and also, it's a great sport for dogs that, um, perhaps have been doing other sports and then got injured or too elderly or something.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:04

That's right, because it's not yeah, it's not terribly as physical, as you know.

Laura Carter: 30:08

No, no, no.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:09

But I've watched the dogs and they're so proud of themselves.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:12

Oh, they love it, absolutely love it.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:14

Yeah, and then, of course, you know service dogs, dogs that do this, for you know bomb sniffing dogs or whatever. Yeah, you know, we're just. I mean, that's an amazing thing they do, just right. But the fact that science is starting to understand how dogs, olfactory, works, their noses work and how they're learning to, you know, figure out he can. The dogs can sniff out cancer. The dogs can sniff out things, know when somebody's going to have a seizure, you know, warn them ahead of time, because there's so much going on that we're not even aware of, and I find that fascinating. And then I I also because I always go back to horses, but I found out, I just learned this that we're not even aware of, and I find that fascinating. And then I also, because I always go back to horses, but I found out, I just learned this year. And how old am I? Horses have the same olfactory system as much nerve centers, whatever to pick up as dogs. I mean, their sense of smell is as good as a dog's, which is why they can smell water. They can smell water a long ways away. Nobody ever thought about it, but you could literally train horses to do scent work. If you took the time, you know it's like you could. I mean, I don't know why you would, but you could, and so, uh, I thought that was that's why my horses you know, my horse that loves to smell me is spend so much time doing it and whatever. So, you know, and I want to know, like, can cats be trained to do that? You know.

Laura Carter: 31:31

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, people have to go.

Barbara O’Brien: 31:33

We'll have to ask a cat scientist person, but yes yeah, okay, all right. Well, we're coming up on the part of the show. Um, bring these here so you can see them. We call this the snack break, the. There's some cookies I made now. Now, if you were here, I would be sharing these beautiful, made with real Wisconsin butter, two types of chocolate, chocolate chip cookies, but since you're not, I'll have to eat them all myself later. But this marks that we're going to ask the questions, and what I did was, in your intake form, I sent you a series of questions that we, uh, borrowed from um Tim Ferris’s book, Tribe of Mentors and there's another podcaster who does this and so we totally stole this idea, because I I just think it's fun to ask these questions.

Laura Carter: 32:18

Yeah definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 32:19

So, I'm gonna ask some questions and, uh, the first one is, and you picked these out of like 20 that we sent um, there's just five what?

Laura Carter: 32:29

I can't remember what I wrote, so.

Barbara O’Brien: 32:31

Nobody, nobody can, which makes this fun for me, so it's always a surprise uh, what book would you recommend, and why besides your own? Of course we're gonna. We're gonna look at yes.

Laura Carter: 32:43

Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, I mean it depends on, I say, kind of which situation. Um I mean I'm a big fan of the stick.

Barbara O’Brien: 32:52

Yeah, I'm sorry, it could be any subject, so it doesn't have to necessarily be dogs. So.

Laura Carter: 32:55

Oh, any subject?

Barbara O’Brien: 32:57

Yeah, what book would you recommend?

Laura Carter: 32:59

Probably one of my favorite books out there, which is quite an old one, is called, Don't Shoot the Dog. It's a Karen Pryor book.

Barbara O’Brien: 33:06

I've heard of Karen Pryor. Yeah.

Laura Carter: 33:07

Yeah, and it's a really good book because it talks about all the principles of dog training, but it's applying it to people. It's a really interesting book, really good book, and it's really well written. Any it's really easy to read, quick to understand, um, and just peels to so many different people and it just shows how you can use all the kind of behavior traits that we train with dog trainers, with people, without with any animals.

Barbara O’Brien: 33:37

Well, I do find that working with dogs and children is very similar you have to find out what makes them happy and keep them happy and motivated, because once they're unhappy, it's done. Nobody learns when they're unhappy or scared or sad, so.

Laura Carter: 33:49

No, definitely not no.

Barbara O’Brien: 33:51

Yeah, so that's Karen Pryor. Don't Shoot the Dog.

Laura Carter: 33:54

That's Don’t Shoot the Dog. Yeah, okay, it's quite an old book, but it's one I always go back to. So.

Barbara O’Brien: 34:06

Yeah, yeah, there's always lots of wisdom. I mean, you know, yes, okay, um, what has been your biggest failure, and how has it helped you?

Laura Carter: 34:11

Oh, I can't remember what I wrote down for this one either um, I mean, it would probably be the fact that I was to say quite a few or about 10 years ago, I started a dog daycare business, um, which originally, I started. I had a business partner that I set it up with, um, but she left quite quickly because she was used to employed work and she wasn't used to the fact that when you start a new business, it takes a long time before you take home any money.

Barbara O’Brien: 34:42

Yeah, it takes a while.

Laura Carter: 34:43

Um, yeah, but then the business developed, and it got to the stage where I ended up having five staff that worked for me, um, and we had um three industrial units that we ran the business from.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:58

Oh goodness.

Laura Carter: 35:00

Um, but the problem was is I'm an absolute rubbish manager. I don't like working; I don't like organizing people. So, it was a bit of a failure, as in all I wanted to do was to work with the dogs all day, not manage people. So, I actually sold the business in 2019, just before COVID.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:24

Oh, that was wise.

Laura Carter: 35:26

It was very wise, yes, simply because I ended up creating a business I absolutely hated, because it's all about managing people rather than working with dogs.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:37

Well, it doesn't sound like a failure, then it sounds more like a life lesson, you know. But that's what you learned from it.

Laura Carter: 35:43

Yeah, definitely so.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:46

Yeah, I can relate to that. Um, that's why you know I uh mess up on time zones and things like numbers, and you know so if I didn't have the help of my good producer and my husband who works with me in our regular business, which is animal actors, and I'm also a commercial photographer. Um, that, those organizational things you know, I can sell, and I can do all the physical stuff, but the organization you know like well, I'm really grateful for my help.

Laura Carter: 35:12

Yeah, definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:13

Shout out to my producer, Elizabeth, so.

Laura Carter: 36:18

Brilliant, yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 36:19

Okay. Number three is if you could send a message to the world, what would that be? Or do you have a favorite quote, and why?

Laura Carter: 36:30

I think the message to the world would just be be kind, because there's so many people that get you know. Whatever animal you're dealing with, whether it be human, dog, cat horse or anything, um, there's so many people that kind of almost try to use authority to almost get power over animals and other people. Um, and it really shouldn't be like that. Um, say kindness will always get there in the end. Um, and that's what you want to do when you're doing working with animals, as you mentioned previously, you know if your animal is scared or worried or anything. They're not actually learning.

Barbara O’Brien: 37:05

No, you're right, so we can all use a little kindness. Right.

Laura Carter: 37:08

Yeah, definitely I think it is. It's be kind.

Barbara O’Brien: 37:12

OK, I like it. I agree. All right, what is the worst advice given in your profession or bad idea that you hear of in your field of expertise?

Laura Carter: 37:24

Probably the biggest or the kind of the worst thing I'll say is that that always bugs me is when you've got a dog on restricted exercise and the go-to advice is give them a Kong. That will sort it all out.

Barbara O’Brien: 37:36

Okay, so for our audience that doesn't know what a Kong is, could you describe?

Laura Carter: 37:40

Yes. So, it's like a little red rubber toy that you can fill up with food. That's a great way of it's a great activity for dogs, but if you've got a dog. So, I spoke to a client this morning whose dogs just had an operation. Um, and she's one week in after the operation and already she's going. The Kong isn't working anymore, you know I can't keep giving my dog all this food, yeah, um, but it is kind of the go-to advice for people on pet on um crate rest is just give the dog something to chew on or something to do like that um, and that will solve all your problems. And it's not as we were saying earlier. The dog wants to spend that one, that one to one time with you doing those fun things, but it's just adapting the activity. If walks can't go ahead, you can do lots of other things with your dog, which they just want your time.

Barbara O’Brien: 38:34

You're right. No, that's it's very true, All right. And then the last question what did you want to be as a child and how close did you get to that dream?

Laura Carter: 38:42

I remember the answer to this one, as my mom will proudly tell you. When I was about two or three, I wanted to be a scarecrow. When I grew up, that was my life ambition.

Barbara O’Brien: 38:59

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Laura Carter: 39:02

Yeah, I don't know why, but that was my life ambition. But I suppose it's being outside in all weathers. You know being so. I love being outside, obviously working with the dogs. So, to some degree I've met, I've reached my goal. I'm not stuck in an office somewhere, which is what I'd hate to do.

Barbara O’Brien: 39:29

Oh right, yeah. Yeah, that's pretty sweet. You're the first person that's ever said they wanted to be a scarecrow, so it’s memorable, and I love that. Who doesn't mind a scarecrow? They're fun, you know, I mean.

Laura Carter: 39:37

They're fun yeah, yeah yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 39:40

Of course, the Wizard of Oz had you know that really nice scarecrow. So, you know.

Laura Carter: 39:48

Definitely, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know where that came from, but I say, my mom will always proudly tell you that when when Laura was little, she wanted to be a scarecrow.

Barbara O’Brien: 39:52

So that's brilliant. I love it. I love it okay. Well then, why don't you please fill us in, um now? This information will also be on the show notes, um, where you, wherever people listen to their podcasts or watch YouTube, but why don't you tell us how people can reach you and what if they want to work with you? You know how that works. I don't know if that's only local or as you get your wags to. I'm sorry, wag without walks program going, but let's talk about how to find you.

Laura Carter: 40:19

Yep, so my brand at the moment is laura carter canines, so I've got my website, uh, which is laura carter caninescom, and I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram and I'm on TikTok under that name. Okay, um, and what most people do is, if they need to work with me is to start with, we book a one-to-one zoom call for about half an hour. It's completely free, no charge for that at all, um, and we can have a little chat and you can tell me about all the problems you're having with your dog or the situation that you're in, and then I can kind of advise you as to how I can help you and some kind of put across some of the ideas and the games that I think will be work for you. And then from there you can then either book your one-to-one sessions with me, and we do kind of one a week for as many months as you want to. So, some people just book me for one month and we do a weekly Zoom session and then they get lots of support in between, or, starting in May, you'll be able to just go on the slightly lower priced membership where you don't get the one-to-one help, but obviously I'd say it's slightly lower priced.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:29

So, the resources are there.

Laura Carter: 41:32

Yeah, no, that's yeah, yeah. The resources are there. Yeah, yeah, I work with people all over the world, so most of my clients aren't local to me. So, as I said, a lot of these people are stuck in their homes with their dogs for whatever reason. So actually, it wouldn't be practical to meet up face to face, which is why it works so well with the modern technology.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:53

Yeah, we're grateful. We're grateful for that.

Laura Carter: 41:55

Yeah, definitely.

Barbara O’Brien: 41:56

Yeah, well, the nice thing about dogs and any animal is it's universal. I mean, dogs all speak the same language and dogs, dogs like their owners, you know, no matter what. So, there's always that base that you can. You know everyone can relate and you can communicate how to help their dog. So.

Laura Carter: 42:16

Yes, definitely yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 42:17

Okay, so um, let's hold up your book one more time for everybody. So, we can, we can see it. Okay. The Vet Says Rest by Laura Carter, and you can find it wherever books are sold, like Amazon, things like that, and she's going to have a really cool program coming up, maybe by the time this is out. So just look at the notes, but that's called Wag Without Walks and in the meanwhile, you can reach out directly and the links will be on all this info, info, and Laura can help you with your pup. So, Laura, thank you so much for coming today being on our show.

Laura Carter: 42:52

No problem.

Barbara O’Brien: 42:53

Thank you for the time zone discrepancy and being patient with us. I'm really going to work that out. Actually, I'm going to let Elizabeth always be on top of it, because she would be my producer and I don't have to worry about it because there's too much going on. I should just say this time, you know, this is it, uh, and I wish I was in Scotland right now because it sounds like a great place to be, but, um.

Laura Carter: 43:15

Yes, Scotland’s lovely.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:16

I'm in snowy Wisconsin instead. Um, thank you again so much for being here.

Laura Carter: 43:19

No problem, no, lovely to have a chat with you.

Music: 43:24