Susan Friedland - The True Story of Marguerite Henry and Misty of Chincoteague S2 E16

(Music): 0:00

Barbara O’Brien: 0:14
Hi, I'm Barbara O'Brien. I'm an animal trainer and photographer, and I'd like to welcome you to The Empathetic Trainer.

(Music) 0:20

Barbara O’Brien: 0:27
Hi, this is Barbara O'Brien and you're listening to The Empathetic Trainer podcast. Today's guest is Susan Friedland. She's an author and lover of all things equestrian. Her fascination with Margaret Henry and Misty of Chincoteague led her on a personal journey where she wrote a book called Margaret, Misty, and Me. Well, we're going to talk about that book and the other books that you've written, because those sound interesting to me too. But, boy, Margaret Henry, am I even pronouncing her name correctly, or is it Marguerite?

Susan Friedland: 0:55
Very close. It is Marguerite. Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 0:58
Marguerite Henry, because, growing up, every horse person everywhere, everyone I've talked to when I said I was going to be doing this podcast has a favorite Marguerite Henry book. Like they automatically knew. If they were horse people, they automatically knew who she was. Now that's a legacy all in itself if she's influenced so many people for so many years.

Susan Friedland: 01:19
She has, and what I've found over the couple of years that I researched to write Marguerite, Misty, and Me as well as it's been out not quite a year yet I've done some speaking is that people seem to be in three distinct camps. So, there are the Misty, the hardcore Misty fans, and I'm one of those. And then there is a group of people that just is in love with King of the Wind is a group of people that just is in love with King of the Wind, and I met a woman she said you know, her horse back in the day was named Sham after the main character in King of the Wind. And then there's also the people who love Bridie the most the story of the burrow who you know went into the Grand Canyon. And so, there's like a Misty, a Bridie, and a King of the Wind slash Sham, you know, group out there as well.

Barbara O’Brien: 2:09

There's also the Justin Morgan had a horse.

Susan Friedland: 2:11

Oh, yes, yes!

Barbara O’Brien: 2:13

Just so you know that the Morgan world. Okay, like did you see the movie? I finally found it online. We finally got to watch the movie; you know.

Susan Friedland: 02:20
You know what, that one I have not seen, but I did see King of the Wind. But, um, I'll share with you kind of a Morgan fun fact about Marguerite Henry. So while, I would, and I don't know if I'm jumping ahead here, but I just want to make sure that I say this because I know how much you love Morgans. So, Marguerite um is from Wisconsin, just like you're in Wisconsin. There, I don't know if you knew that she was.

Barbara O’Brien: 02:43
Yep, I read your books.

Susan Friedland: 02:46
Yeah. So, she was born in Milwaukee and was a city kid and just loved horses her whole life and never was really in a position to be able to have a horse, until she got the horse that many of us dreamed of, which was actually a pony, a Chincoteague pony, Misty, the famous beautiful Palomino Pinto from the story. But all that to say, her husband was a very hardcore golfer and they lived in this village called Wayne, Illinois, which is about an hour from Chicago, and so, as you know, being from the Midwest, our winters can be a bit much to endure and if you're a golfer or, you know, avid horse person, that's not always the best. So, they would escape to Florida for a little bit.

Barbara O’Brien: 3:29

Sure.

Susan Friedland: 03:30
And I find it fascinating that Marguerite, her husband, was golfing in Florida and she wasn't that into it. So, she, you know, had Misty at this time, but Misty was a foal so she couldn't ride. So, she still like didn't really have that connection to be able to ride a horse. So, she found a polo grounds and she asked one of the trainers there if he could teach her how to ride and she wrote a beautiful black Morgan horse named Friday, and so she was a Morgan fan and obviously Justin Morgan had a horse was her first horse book that she wrote. Her first book was supposed to be Album of Horses, but when she was looking up all the different breeds, the Morgan, really, you know captured her imagination the most. And the other thing is Barbara. The University of Minnesota has her personal papers and I read hundreds of fan letters to Marguerite, and you'd start to see themes of these letters that children would send, and they wanted to know did she have kids? Was Misty still alive? You know all these different and a common question was what is your favorite breed of horse? And she would always say something very general, like whatever horse you love. I can see where she didn't want to say oh, I love Arabians. But I found one letter that said, basically, if you can find yourself a good Morgan horse, to me that is the best of the horse world, or something to that effect. So I think that was her subtle way of saying that Morgans were her favorite.

Barbara O’Brien: 05:08
I think so too. You know how we all you like thoroughbreds and and you know you have a thoroughbred and I want to hear more about him. But it's like part of it is like what did you start with? Like the first horse that I got to actually ride and take care of was a Morgan right. And Arabs are my close second because those are the ones I could afford when I couldn't afford Morgans. But Arabs are really cheap, so you could get an Arab super cheap right in the 80s, you know the after the tax thing changed and they were dumping Arabs everywhere. So I couldn't afford the Morgans, which I loved, but couldn't afford them, and it was easy to pick up these sweet old Arabs, and so I have a soft spot for both. When we have a breed preference, a lot of times it has to do with what we started with, and so of course we're open to new things. I mean, Icelandic’s are really fun and Fjord horses and I like the small, compact breeds. That's me. But I'm sure if you love thoroughbreds, then warm bloods and others like that are not much of a jump to really admire them but perhaps that's what you start with.

Susan Friedland: 06:04
Yeah, well, I didn't start with thoroughbreds, that would have been too much. I started, um, actually riding in Wayne. Um, my family was not horsey, although my mom grew up on a dairy farm and loved horses. But you know the old thing with farmers animals have to have a job, and you know.

Barbara O’Brien: 06:20
Yeah. Hay burners.

Susan Friedland: 06:22
Right, that was the exact word my grandpa Dittrich used, hay burners. But anyway so she couldn't have a horse and so you know it just, even though there was kind of this rural and farm ag thing of being around animals and used to them, just not the riding component. So of course, I read books and Margaret Henry books and books on riding and all of that. But then my life changed when I was around 11 or 12. And some people who lived in the village of Wayne, which is like five miles from where we lived, said come on out and ride. So, I got the privilege to ride a 25-year-old chestnut quarter horse named Jim Dandy, and so my first horse was a quarter horse years later and actually we were not a very good match. It was, you know, the blind leading the blind and the whole thing of green rider, green horse. And this you know. I survived and he did too and he matured and became something nice for another woman. But yeah, I'm not sure how I got into the whole thoroughbred thing, but I just I love them. I've had two and they're both dark bay with, you know, blaze and just fun and delicate, sensitive flowers. I'd probably do better with the Morgan or something a little more sturdy.

Barbara O’Brien: 07:45
Well, depending on the Morgan, they can be pretty hot too, so it depends, but I have the old style, so they're pretty sensible. That's really cool. We have such similar stories. When I was reading the book, I'm going to hold it up because I want everyone to see this book. Man, I read it and, like I don't take a lot of time to read I should read more, but I do a lot, so I was just reading it, reading it, reading it. I brought it on set with me yesterday to read it and everyone wanted to know about it, because the way you tell her story makes you feel so good about her. So many of our heroes are people we admire. And then we read later wow, he was a jerk to his wife, or he did this bad thing, or you know, our heroes all have clay feet right, or people that you really admire, and then you find out they're human. Okay, of course, but sometimes they're not the best humans and you're so disappointed because you're like, oh, wow, you know. But when you read about Marguerite, you're like, wow, she just sounds like a sweetheart through and through, like her heart was so kind.

Susan Friedland: 08:44
So kind, so kind. Well, you know, I do think she was a salt of the earth, Midwesterner, you know, I've done a number of speaking things from, you know, the East Coast to the West Coast and the Midwest, and I am Midwestern although I spent 25 years in California. But I did, you know, a couple events in Wisconsin, which is the land of Marguerite and just the people are so nice. I had a woman show up at an event I did, I think it was in Waukesha and it was before Christmas time and she had made this felted wool Christmas tree.

Barbara O’Brien: 09:24
Wow.

Susan Friedland: 09:25

And she gave it to me and I'm like, I don't even know you. She's like here, this is for you, and so it just. And then someone I worked at a Christian camp when I was in college in East Troy, Wisconsin, and a woman that I had not seen, you know, in 30 years, who also worked at the camp, saw a Facebook thing and she's not even a horse person really, but she showed up to see me and so, you know, I think part of it is you know just where she's from but also, obviously, good parenting. I was an educator for many years and so when you, you know, I would have some students that was like wow, that person was a kid, you know, like an 11-year-old boy that's polite and kind and thoughtful. And then you meet the parents and it's like, okay, this explains why this person is so wonderful, you know. So yeah, Marguerite, I know exactly what you're saying because I did sort of think that at the start of my research like, oh gosh, if I'm really investing all this time, travel and all of this into her, I hope she was a good person and the fact that she, you know, far exceeded my expectations and her empathy and her kindness and thoughtfulness and I know I have it in the book, but just for people who haven't read it yet it really stood out to me when I was at the University of Minnesota archives and I laid out on the desk all these little tiny school photos and they were from all you know, there was like the black and white photo from the 60s and then the permed hair and funny glasses from the 80s and the airplane 70s collars and it was like, okay, this woman had such a long, um era of people adoring her, and so I started like turning over the backs of the pictures and if a child wrote their name and you know, like Timmy second grade, in her cursive that I came to know through studying her papers she would write the last name and so it's like these weren't just like she cared, she kept their pictures and, um, I, her last illustrator, a woman by the name of Bonnie Shields, really shed a light on who Marguerite was and she's, and she knew Marguerite in her eighties and nineties. And Bonnie said, and she would go to Marguerite's house when she lived in Rancho, Santa Fe, California, and she said Marguerite delighted in her fan mail and she was always changing out her office because people would draw little pictures of characters from the story or just different letters. I saw one that was like an illustrated almost like um, fan fiction, uh, Album of Horses and it was this beautiful, very bright color, uh, illustrated of different horse breeds. And um a note, Marguerite wrote back to the child was I love that so much, it's so special, I have it on my coffee table. And so she just really she was a good person. I wish I could have met her.

Barbara O’Brien: 12:28
She seemed to really connect and really care and want to take the time to be gentle and kind and good to the children that wrote to her or the people that wrote to her. You mentioned in your book like if she was here now in this era, she'd be like this social media phenomenon, because how genuine and true she is, but also how incredibly popular still to this day her books are. If you're a horse person. You know who she is because if you were a little girl, a little boy, but of course, but you read these. My friend, my dog trainer because we were working on set yesterday, she was working with dogs and cats showed her your book and she goes oh, oh, I contributed money, I helped raise money to preserve the ranch, the BB Ranch. I'm going to go there someday. That's my goal. I'm going to the pony penning, and it was just so exciting to see somebody else's excitement about and of course she's like, give me the book. I was like I gotta finish it first, um, but she, you know that's she's, you know in her sixties now. But it was like and what does she ride? She rides an Arab cause she loved King of the Wind, you know, Um, and so it's. It's just really, really fun because you have an instant connection with these other people, because we have a frame of reference. And I know she wrote other books and dog books and things like that too, of course, but I think it was the horse ones. That, at least in my world, that's what we did. So, I have to show you these because they're my treasures, okay. So, here's King of the Wind, yeah, and this one I remember reading as a teenager, like I was probably 13 or 14, and uh, I just Mustangs, I mean, and reading her book about wild horse Annie. It just this changed everything. And then we did a podcast about the Mustangs, um, at Theodore Roosevelt state park, and so we got a chance to see them. And, uh, talk to Chris Kman who is leading the charge to keep them there, cause that's a whole nother controversy. But the ponies on Chincoteague are protected, they're protected, but the ones at the Theodore Roosevelt state park are not. They're not under the same law and they could be, you know, just gotten rid of, and so there is a big fight going on over there right now. But anyway, this made me fall in love with Mustangs, right. And who doesn't love Bridie, you know, right? And of course, no, no, Morgan person is not going to have this book. But what a treasure it was to find Cinnabar, you know, because I mean, she wrote about other things than just, you know, horses and she had to understand how fox. We live on a farm, so we know about fox. And my fox, where they're allowed to live here because my geese keep them away from my chickens, so the fox coexist, as long as they don't go in the pen, where the geese can get them and beat them up. So, they can catch a chicken, but they can't get her over the fence. They can't jump enough to get her over the fence within the mouth, so the geese will beat them up and the fox goes. I'm gonna find something easier, so anyway, but I love them, I love seeing them, you, I just don't want them in with my hens. And then of course this one, and I bought this for my children years ago and I have four sons and none of them are serious riders now. But they all grew up horses and 4-H and love them. And of course I'm a little biased here. But the very best horse in the book is the Morgan right there.

Susan Friedland: 15:46
Well, I have to tell you a neat story and it's kind of in the book, but I met a gentleman whose name is Ed Richardson and he was a little boy who lived in Wayne and his first job was riding Misty as Marguerite rode her Morgan, and another boy at the time rode Jiggs, who is actually the Bridey Burrow. And so, anyway, I got to know Ed a little bit and went to his house and he brought out this small box, maybe the size of a coaster, and inside were these little I don't even know the name, really Barbara but like decorative brass or metal pieces that would go on the side of the brow band of a bridal.

Barbara O’Brien: 16:34

Okay.

Susan Friedland: 16:35

And it was CP for Cleveland Police. And in Marguerite's writing and I should actually do a blog post on this because I have a photo of it.

Barbara O’Brien: 16:44

Cool.

Susan Friedland: 16:45

But the photo, you know there were so many little rabbit trails that my editor was like you can't put all that in the book and I'm like but people will love this it’s so interesting. It's like, yeah, but it distracts.

Barbara O’Brien: 16:56
But, I did enjoy that when you would. You know the little piece. I mean I enjoyed the whole book, I just.

Susan Friedland: 17:01

Oh, thank you that means lot to me. That means a lot to me as I was writing and it's so hard to be a writer and you're, you know, you're alone, and then you start wondering, like, am I crazy? Like. But I just thought, like you know, I was active, you know, following these Facebook pages of Chincoteague Pony fans and just seeing about the you know BB Ranch and all this, and it's like no people still love Marguerite and her story has yet to be told. So.

Barbara O’Brien: 17:30
Oh yeah.

Susan Friedland: 17:31
I just you know. So that was really kind of driving me like I thought there will be so many people just delighted to get to have kind of this more intimate picture of you know what her life was like.

Barbara O’Brien: 17:47

Yeah, when you read it when you read it, because you're an excellent writer and you make the person feel like we are right there at her desk with her, or right there at the ranch, or right there, whatever she's doing. You made us feel like we were sitting there with her as a friend. It's such a personal, intimate book. I just read a book about Ella Fitzgerald okay, and it was a biography, and it was interesting to a point, because I like biographies a lot and I love Ella, right, so that part's easy.

Susan Friedland: 18:15
I love Ella yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 18:16
But it's very technical and it was really really, really, really about jazz more than anything else and if you were a jazz fan this was a great book. But if you wanted to know really about Ella and now, she was a very private person so that might've made it hard for the author, but I felt like I couldn't. I had to give up about halfway through because I felt like I wasn't really getting to know Ella very much. It was like she played here, and she did this song and she worked with this guy or whatever, and well written and all that. Your book made me feel like Marguerite and I are friends. It made me feel so close to her and it made me really happy because her books brought me so much joy, and not just me, because everyone you talk to about her book, they all have a story they want to say. This book meant this to me. It's so personal.

Susan Friedland: 19:06
Yeah, thank you, I really appreciate you saying that. And I wasn't sure when I set out to discover who she was. I wasn't sure if there'd even be enough material for a book, but I had been writing for horse magazines and I have my blog Saddle Seeks Horse. I've had for about 10 years, and I thought, you know, at the very least I'll get a few blog posts out of this. And my background as an educator, you know, writing is important to me. I was a history teacher and I would tell my students like you need to talk to your grandparents and you need to preserve this history of your family, find out what it was like when they were in middle school and you know what, what, how did they get to school, what did they do after school and what did they eat and what did they do on the weekends. So I kind of felt this like I wanted to you know, preserve or find out what I could about Marguerite, while there were still people around who knew her, and so it kind of motivated me. But then I started, you know. So I found a lot of stuff online, I spent a lot of time on Ancestry and then it was just like the world opened up when I found the University of Minnesota has her personal papers.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:20
Who knew right I'm only like 70 miles from Minneapolis 80 miles.

Susan Friedland: 20:23
Oh, you got to go there.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:24
I'm just like who knew that that existed, you know yeah.

Susan Friedland: 20:28
So it's it's neat to hear your response to the book, because I thought I would be writing kind of this distant third person biography and then, as I was doing this, it was like that's not my voice. I have a blogger voice. I talk in first person. I want to tell a story, like I'm just sitting there chatting with a friend sharing what I learned.

Barbara O’Brien: 20:50
See, I think that's the key. That's what, I think, made it feel so personal because I feel like I got to know you as well, because you tell your adventure, your adventure doing this, because I get that, because we shoot B-roll for the stories that we're telling here, and so I get to go out and film and photograph and meet people in person when I can, and nothing gives me greater pleasure. So, reading about your adventures especially the pony penning adventure, which I'd like you to talk about and the fact that you went and talked to real people that knew her that, just like I said, it makes it so much personal than say you're writing about someone who's been dead for 500 years. You know, it's just, it's really wonderful, wonderful, and I love your historic point of view. My husband and I met in Minnesota history class, and so we have a love of history, that you know, and my sons are all historians in their own way. And, um, you know what? 40 some years my husband and I've been married, and we still will always pick a history site over anything commercial. It's like let's go see this place, let's go, and the boys grew up that way too, and so when we can tell somebody's life story the way you did and share it so people have an understanding, I think that's a great gift you're giving them.

Susan Friedland: 21:57
Thank you, thank you.

(Music) 21: 58

Susan Friedland: 22:03

Yeah, I want to honor her because she was a very humble person and. Yeah, so she. What she's done is, you know her works are so timeless and beautiful and filled with hope, and they bring such joy, and so I really, you know she doesn't need me to like have her memory floating around there, but I would love to bring more prominence to her. Because, you know, people know about the Chincoteague Ponies and it's like, oh yeah, that was a great book, but I just I feel like my last year as a teacher we had a scholastic book fair and those were a highlight when I was a kid.

Barbara O’Brien: 22:45
Oh, I love those, I love those. Love those.

Susan Friedland: 22:46
I was looking around, but there wasn't really anything that I little girl, Susan, would have wanted to read. It was a lot of fantasy genre. I'm not knocking fantasy genre, but it just, you know, it was like where are the books about kids and animals and just some of these kind of simple stories that are beautiful, and you know that last. So, yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 23:10
Well, you know, the name of our show is The Empathetic Trainer and so if you look at the other podcasts and the guests we have, it's all about being in attunement and understanding and communicating better with your animals that they have emotions and they have feelings and that you know science is proving that even more and more, Cause it wasn't that long ago when they said animals can't feel the same way humans do. But that's ridiculous. They're mammals, were mammals, you know even lizards can love. Okay, I mean, you know. So, it's like you know there's a shift in the horse world, thank goodness, of wanting to be more in tune. There's been a longer, it's been going on longer in the dog world with much more intuitive and kinder methods of working with a dog to get them to understand what you're asking as an animal actor trainer, everything has to be done where it's really fun, and so, of course, that's been the theme of our show is to build that understanding and attunement. Well, Marguerite was inside of the horse's mind and when she would tell the story and the compassionate, wonderful characters that cared for the animals and then some that weren't so great to the animals, to show the contrast, and it was like she was advocating for these animals’ way before it was popular and giving these animals personalities and feelings. How could, how could Misty not be emotional, not have feelings, not represent something? She's not a dumb animal, right, and all the things that came from that. And so what a gift she gave us early on, like a messenger of this way to be with animals.

Susan Friedland: 24:43
And children too. I you know like another highlight just going through a lot of her fan mail, it was finding a braille letter and so she had, even before this push for Americans with Disability Act and all of this and inclusion and special ed she was looking at she just, I really feel, loved people, she loved her readers, she loved children and so she. There was a note in the archive that said that when Marguerite got the braille letter, she then had a letter that she wrote, translated into braille, to then send to the child.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:21
Isn’t that thoughtful? How thoughtful.

Susan Friedland; 25:25
You know just think.  Yeah, like the time that. Cause I'm thinking now I could sit there and Google Braille society or something you know, and it's like how would you back in that day? No, you know, that would.

Barbara O’Brien: 25:35
Well, what a thrill what a thrill that child must've gotten to get the letter. Because I remember when I was in junior high I wrote to Arabian horse breeders who, because I used to read Arabian Horse World, which had I'm a photographer now, so that influenced me as a photographer to see the beautiful photography in Arabian Horse World, Johnny Johnston and all these other famous photographers. Anyway, they would take beautiful pictures of horses and you'd see, you'd fall in love with particular stallions and things like that. So I wrote to Sheila Varian, who bred beautiful, beautiful Arabians, and I wrote to Mike Nichols, who had some of the grand champions at the time and a few others, Elmara, and you know what Sheila Varian hand wrote back. I mean, can you imagine I still have letters from those breeders, the ones that were kind of take time out of their day, you know, before a simple email. I mean, somebody had to like sit down, literally, you know. And then they send me, like you know, beautiful photographs, like eight by 10 photographs, and I was just a fan, honestly, literally a fan. You know, little kid, I love your stallion, he's so beautiful, I wish to have an Arab like that someday, you know. So that was very touching to me, that Marguerite was like that, you know, and it's just so kind. I heard someone speaking on a I don't know if it was a talk show or whatever, but they were famous and they were nice and they said you know what you need to do in life, just give it away. Just give it away. Somebody asks you for something, just do it. It's not hard, just give it away. And I think that's such a wonderful precept because I've been the benefit of that. People have been so kind to me, and I know you do too. When you can, you do what you can just to make somebody's day better, especially children. Right?

Susan Friedland: 27:14
Yes, for sure.

Barbara O’Brien: 27:15
You were a teacher, so you already know what service is.

Susan Friedland: 27:21
Yeah, well, I felt I have to tell you when I was there with all those school photos you know hundreds of them, and I probably took out like 120. I just took out one file folder but there were multiple file folders in this banker's box and I'm looking at all these photos thinking she kept these and she wasn't with them. And I was, you know, because I've gotten so many of those little school photos over the years of teaching and like, okay, where are all of mine? I haven't kept them and I loved, you know when I it's so special to be with these young people for, you know, 185 days out of a year and see them grow and mature and learn and and just have fun with them and teach them things and all of that. And so I had a little bit of guilt like, okay, Marguerite is a better person.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:11
Well.

Susan Friedland: 28:11
I don't know where my photos are. I didn't keep them all.

Barbara O’Brien: 28:15
Yeah, but I'm sure you had a good influence on the, on the children you worked with. I can tell that you were a good teacher and I'm sure they enjoyed having you my art teacher from my let's see when I was a junior in high school. It was her first year of teaching and I was in her class and after I got a, I had a book published in 2014, and she noticed it and she's like you know, it's so fun to see you what you're doing now. You know it's so fun to see you what you're doing now. You know, because we connected on Facebook and it was like you know, I don't know, 30 years difference, you know, and she's like practically retired I think she retired by the time. You know we reconnected, but it was really fun because I said to her thank you, you were such a great influence. Because she let me instead of. Oh, I had it for study hall and you have to normally sit in study hall, but she let me go to the library because, see, that's where the books were. You're not allowed to do that, but I'd get a special pass and go sit in the library, because what would I do in study hall when I have a whole library in front of me. So, I'm grateful to Kay Hoskins I'm shouting you out there. To be such a great art teacher and understand that that's what I needed was to be with the books and where I could draw and stuff.  Unlike Mr. Johansson who said you're never going to make any money if you keep drawing horse pictures on your math test. He's like stop that.

Susan Friedland: 29:30
Oh no.

Barbara O’Brien: 29:31
You don't learn your times tables; you're never going to make a living. And I just go well, Mr. Johansson, I'm making a living with animals. So, you know, I don't know, I'm not doing times tables. I got a calculator.

Susan Friedland: 29:42
Yeah, exactly yeah.

(Music) 29:43

Barbara O’Brien: 29:49
There's a couple of things I wanted to talk about a little bit too. A, your adventure, your adventure that you went on. I mean, I was reading that and I'm right there with you in the kayak. I'm like, oh, what I would give to see what you saw.

Susan Friedland; 30:00
Oh my gosh. That was amazing.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:02

Because I admire the work of Wesley Dennis so incredibly much as an artist myself, I just you know, not to that level, but his story, the life of his pictures. I wanted to know what that felt like when you got to see that. So, let's talk about the Pony penning first.

Susan Friedland: 30:19
Okay, so Pony penning. It is, again just like getting to know Marguerite through studying her for two years. She exceeded my expectations. Pony penning did as well, and Chincoteague is just a beautiful small town, and you just feel welcome. You just you know, I felt like I belong there. I didn't feel like an outsider, and I went right after. So, I'm in the Midwest again. I was in Southern California for 25 years and you know people tend to not like Californians for whatever reason. But I was like I just felt I belonged there.

Barbara O’Brien: 30:58
You're a horse person. You're a universal, you know

Susan Friedland: 31:01

Misty yeah, so, um it yeah so charming and delightful. The ponies are so beautiful and yeah, it's, it's just wild to see them. So I first saw them, so before they can do the swim, which is what is written about in Misty of Chincoteague, where they swim from Assateague Island, which, for your listeners who don't know, it's a wildlife refuge and there is a herd of about 150, mostly mares, but about maybe 20 stallions, and so every year when the foals are born, obviously they don't want the island to overpopulate, so they do this swim in July, toward the end of July, and it is a swim where the saltwater cowboys, who are volunteer fire fighters on Chincoteague island, uh, basically, are herding the stallions and mares and foals through the water from Assateague Island to Chincoteague Island. What a lot of people don't realize is they kind of do a vet check before the swim. So, if there's a foal that is too tiny, or maybe a horse that's older and isn't looking like they could make the swims, you know, in great fashion, or a mare that's too pregnant, they'll be trailered over, but anyway. So, I first saw them in one of the kind of holding corrals prior to the swim and it was a thrill to. I've never been that close to wild horses before.

Barbara O’Brien: 32:35
That would be, exciting.

Susan Friedland: 32:39
And it's like they weren't, because there were people. I mean, it was like they're the celebrities. So, there's people all lined up, there's like double fence line, but there are a lot of people. You would have loved it as a photographer, people with their long lenses and taking pictures and just watching the interactions with. I saw a stallion mount a mare and then I saw a foal walk up to a stallion and sniff it and the stallion just kind of looked at it and I'm like okay, like I don't you know, in the books that I read it's like stallions are these, you know, mean territorial creatures and you just kind of looked at the foal like oh hey, how's it going, and um, and I even saw a couple young ones like grooming each other and the withers, and so that was really neat. And then, um, I connected with, uh, one of the women who is a force behind the Chincoteague pony registry, and she knows all the names, the sires, the dams, the grandsires, the grand dams, so like that was just really cool to stand there with her and you know, she could tell me little stories about each of these stallions. And there's a stallion there that she said really takes care of his women because there's a smaller island and this guy likes to swim his little band over to that one because then they don't have to share, you know, the grazing resources and stuff.

Barbara O’Brien: 34:01
Wild horses have amazing family units, amazing family units.

Susan Friedland: 34:05
Yeah, so that was really neat. And then, so the swim came, I rented a kayak and it was about a 20 minute kayak ride out to the area which is called Pony Swim Lane, and so there were people on pontoon boats, rowboats, fishing boats, speedboat, every kind of boat and a bunch of kayaks obviously, and I don't know, maybe 1000s of people, probably 1000s of people, and so we're just this, like excitement is in the air. And I'm super festive. It reminded me so I used to live in Pasadena. In Pasadena, California is known for the Rose Parade and so I've been to that a few times and there's just such a happy excitement and anticipation, and so this is on a different scale, kind of what that felt like. So, then you know you're kind of waiting around, but then like I was tethered um on this line to and we. What was nice about the kayak is you get up a little bit closer than the people in the boats because the boats are big. So, the kayaks are going to be kind of like the front row seats to watch in the pony swim.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:12
That's amazing.

Susan Friedland: 35:13
So I had these fun conversations with fellow horse lovers, fellow Misty.

Barbara O’Brien: 35:18  
Right, you talk about that in the book. It was nice.

Susan Friedland: 35:22
Yeah, and so then when they come through, it is just like you get chills because it's like this is what I read about in this story and it's real, and you can hear them and they're through the water and you just see the top part of the heads and the ears and you know and like I was so close to them, it felt like, yeah, my kayak was swaying, and not dangerously, but you know, like the water, the churning of the water. 200 horses.

Barbara O’Brien: 35: 49

Yeah, just that energy, all that energy going through.

Susan Friedland: 35:51

Yeah, so it was just really remarkable. And then they get to the other side, and then they're allowed to rest, and so there's some grass there, so they kind of graze and hang out, and then they do the parade, which I didn't get to see, which maybe I will do this year. I'm going back to Chincoteague, I'm going to be speaking at the museum, and so they parade down the main street in town, and so it's just like a pony parade. And then they go there's another set of corrals at the carnival grounds, and so then the next day is when they have the foal auction, and there's a lot of joy with that. And it's kind of sad, you know, like I had a weanling at one point. I got an Appaloosa, and so that part is kind of sad when foals are separated from their moms. But you know, that's one of the storylines in Misty of Chincoteague is, you know, they have to grow up at some point. So, there's just a lot of, it's just such a remarkable time. I have a friend who bought a filly at the auction last year and she's actually a friend. I met my first year on Chincoteague and we met watching the pony swim back. So, what I didn't realize and isn't publicized in Misty of Chincoteague, the ponies swim from Assateague to Chincoteague. They have to get back to their homeland of Assateague, so on the Friday of pony, penning week is when they have the swim back and there's fewer tourists, fewer people. So, I, my first year, I did a kayak for that as well, and that was remarkable because Barbara, the saltwater cowboys didn't really have to do a whole lot. They just, you know, brought them from the town up to the edge of the water and those ponies knew where they were going and they swam home and just to see the delight and the joy and they, you know, just cavorting around and plopping on the beach and rolling and it's just such a happy, beautiful thing. So that's where I met this friend who actually lives in Minnesota, her name is Margo and, uh, she bought a philly this past year and a philly the year before and uh, so yeah, there's people that I don't want to say they collect them, but it's because of Marguerite Henry's work that it feels like that's a really special thing to have a piece of this history, to have, you know, a pony and there's, they would announce, like this pony is a Misty descendant at the auction. And so, it's just, it's very special and I hope listeners, if they're interested at all they like to go. I I will say it's extremely hot and humid and there's a lot of mosquitoes, and mosquitoes love me, and so I came home with some welts, but it was definitely. I had a full heart and great photos and have met amazing people that I'm now friends with and who knew. You know, it's like summer horse camp for adults.

Barbara O’Brien: 38:55
Oh, that's wonderful. And then now you're going to be speaking at the museum this year, so that's exciting.

Susan Friedland: 39:00
Yeah, yeah, I was so writing Marguerite story. You know, I understand the Midwestern part because that's my, my background, my heritage. I understand Wayne, Illinois, where she lived all those years, that Bull Meadow, her two-acre little horse farm, Because, like, the area is familiar with me, you know, and I get the mindset and all that. And then she spent the last several years of her life in Southern California. So, I get that part too. But I'm not from Virginia, I'm not a Chincoteaguer, you know, and so I had a little, I don't want to say trepidation, but I wanted to really accurately tell that part of the story of the Chincoteague connection. And I was so flattered because last year during Pony penning week, when my book had just launched, I did a talk at the museum of Chincoteague and a woman who was a local came up and she said I just want to tell you I read your book and you got all the Chincoteague parts right,

Barbara O’Brien: 39:57

Oh wow.

Susan Friedland: 39:58

I was like phew, okay, good, good to know.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:01
Wow, that's great.

Susan Friedland: 40:01
Yeah, and it must have, because they asked me to come back and I'm going to be, speaking Wednesday of Pony penning week at the museum there, so.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:10
Yeah, that's wonderful. It'll start to feel like you're going home again, something very special, you know.

Susan Friedland: 40:15
Yeah, for sure.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:16  
That's really cool. That’s really cool. Um, before we get to the Wesley Dennis question, uh, your experience reminds me, um, of what happens here in Pepin. Okay, Pepin, Wisconsin, is the birthplace of Laura Ingalls Wilder.  Okay, and so a few miles from me is the log cabin and the little you know, and there's a museum in Pepin and people from all over the world visit it and it's really well done, and Carrie's the manager. Hey, Carrie. So anyway, Laura Ingalls Wilder has a huge following, as you can imagine.

Susan Friedland: 40:46
Yes.

Barbara O’Brien: 40:47
And I bet Marguerite is right up there with her, because when you talk to horse people, everyone knows about Marguerite. When you talk to anyone that's interested in history at all, they know about Laura Ingalls Wilder, right. And so, Pepin has Laura Ingalls Days, right, and being an artist, Pepin is about 900 people, okay. So, and I live in this little town near Lund as a vendor, I can have a booth at Laura Ingalls Days because it draws people from all over the place, right. And we thought, okay, well, because I had, during COVID, I made greeting cards and things like that because my business slowed down, so I started selling my art more. So, after COVID, when they had the festival again, I got all my cards. I want to get rid of them. I'm going to have a booth. We had no idea how beloved the Laura Ingalls Wilder is. It's got to be the same way how people feel about Marguerite, because people I couldn't believe how many people came to do the events. It's a really fun festival. They have a website, Laura Ingalls Wilder Days, pep in Wisconsin. But there's people came and where are you from? We're from Australia. Their daughters and their mom and dad came and they all. I don't wear this because of Laura I just have long hair, but the little girls had braids, right, they all had braids, and they wear the clothes. The whole thing is dress up and do the thing and they have fiddle players, and they have reenactors that are doing all of the crafts and things and, how you know, cooked over a fire, very historical stuff, right, and they have contests. It's very interactive festival, but we couldn't believe the number of people. We thought just more local. No, it came from all over the United States, and it reminds me a little bit about what you're saying about Pony penning, where people were so happy and excited to be there and they'd take the bus trips up to see the cabin, which is kind of not far from us, you know, and they had reenactors up there doing everything. So, it's like a big deal. And of course, Laura Ingalls traveled with her family all over. So, there's lots of small towns that have some form of Laura Ingalls something going on, because.

Susan Friedland: 42:51

I've been to De Smet, South Dakota. That was amazing.

Barbara O’Brien: 42:56
People like the feeling of being able to walk where the cabin was built into the hill or see the creek that she talks about. And then here we were, the big woods in Pepin, and she has relatives that continue to stay here and if you go back in the archives, you can see where their farms were and things like that. So there's a long history, but it's fun to be like, well, she was born here, so we get that, Pepin gets that.

Susan Friedland: 43:20
That's really cool. I actually met a distant relative. I gave a talk at the Milwaukee County Historical Society and this woman came up to me at the end and her name was Laura Ingalls and so I'm kind of thinking like what? And she said, yeah, I am actually related, and it was like through Pa's cousin or something. She traced it for me, but from Wisconsin.

Barbara O’Brien: 43:44
Well, they had relatives and they stayed in Wisconsin and Minnesota, a lot of them, the relatives, yeah, and like I want to say, spring somewhere in Wisconsin, but it was southeastern Wisconsin, southeastern Minnesota. Forgive me, the lower people would be crazy because I'm getting my facts wrong. But it was really fun because I did not. I mean she's wonderful books and stuff, but I was busy reading the horse books and I just didn't. There wasn't enough horses, you know. I mean they were there, but it wasn't about horses. So, you know I was reading all the CW, Anderson and Walter Farley and you know, all of Marguerite's instead, and every horse girl everywhere read every book they could get their hands on, right, so

Susan Friedland: 44:22

For sure.

Barbara O’Brien: 44:23
And these beautiful covers in the library, you know, when they're all lined up, I mean look at that. So, this is a good segue into Wesley Dennis, because certainly you know his work right here. So, you got to look at some original work or like the. You know, tell me about that story how that felt.

Susan Friedland: 44:40

Well, okay, so this is kind of a two-part story. I did see some of Wesley Dennis’s original work at the university of Minnesota in the curling collection of children's literature, but I only saw one Marguerite Henry related art and it was this beautiful and I have it on my blog, if people are really interested in saddleseekshorse.com, and then you could just search for Wesley Dennis.

Barbara O’Brien: 45:11
I'm going to look it up.

Susan Friedland: 45:12
Anyway. So, it's a color. I don’t. It looks like a sketch, but it's color, but maybe it's painted. I'm not an artist, but it's in color. And what struck me it's a baby sham. And it's the boy whose name is escaping me Agba, is it and then the mare, and so that was really special. And then I didn't realize that Wesley did so much illustrating. So there's another book, and I can't think of the author right now, but the title is Fools Over Horses.

Barbara O’Brien: 45:43
Oh, okay.

Susan Friedland: 45: 45

And I, since purchased it, I've been kind of getting into collecting vintage horse books, now as a result of this project, but I saw a number of fox hunting pen drawings and illustrations and I just love his style and uh, so what else did I see there? He did, uh, what's the John Steinbeck book? Is he the one that wrote the Red Pony?

Barbara O’Brien: 46:09
Ah, yes. I think so.

Susan Friedland: 46:11

Okay, so he, there was something also in color there. And what's really cool, Barbara, if any of your listeners are near you or not far from Minneapolis, it's an academic library but it's open to the public by appointment. So, if you were also a Marguerite Henry or a Wesley Dennis fan and you wanted to spend some time and look at old documents and photos and art, you would just have to go on the website and, you know, connect with them and arrange for that to happen. It's really neat, but okay. So, here's where the cool part happens. So there's a website dedicated to Wesley Dennis art and I started looking at it and then I found the name of the woman who runs it.

Barbara O’Brien: 46:50
Sure.

Susan Friedland: 46:51
And she, you know it's a side passion project. She's a physician, she's an obstetrician, and so, anyway, she's in Indiana. She invited me to come see her Wesley Dennis collection and so she has. I think it's about 120. The cover you just held up of King of the Wind I've seen that framed hanging in her house.

Barbara O’Brien: 47:17

That is amazing.

Susan Friedland: 47:19
A lot of those covers, yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 47: 21

How big? How big were these pictures then? How big was the.

Susan Friedland: 47:24
That one. I mean, I'm terrible, I would say.

Barbara O’Brien: 47:28

Bigger than this, though, right?

Susan Friedland: 47:30
Oh yeah, yeah, bigger. I mean not giant like.

Barbara O’Brien: 47:32
Well, no, because they're illustrations for a book, so he wouldn't have been making them that big.

Susan Friedland: 47:36
Yeah, but like the, The Five O’clock Charlie, the story about the workhorse, some of those Misty and Stormy, and I would encourage um, I have another uh blog post about that about visiting her art and she was just a delight and spent three hours with us and again I'm thinking like the kindness of Marguerite, like this person doesn't really know me at all and she invited me into her home and spent time, you know. So, I got to hear how she started collecting and it was a. I won't go into all the details, but basically, she found. She thought you know I love Wesley Dunn's art, maybe I can find it online. So, she found a painting, messaged the seller, and asked do you have more of this? Because it wasn't really the one that she would have loved to have the most. And the seller responded I think you need to come to Virginia. And it was like a family member that had all this art and wasn't really sure what to do with it and you know. So, so she's um really very interested in, and I would say like a preservationist, you know it's, it's for her own joy, right and personal collection, but she just loves it and just wants to make sure that you know, know that stuff is taken care of the right way, you know, so that it lasts, which is really cool.

Barbara O’Brien: 49:02
I thought it was interesting in your book when she was looking for an illustrator in the beginning of when she was first writing the books, and Will James was mentioned and you have to understand that I have a soft spot, like you wouldn't believe, for Will James. My other favorite author of this era is Will James, who wrote a lot of books about horses and the West and cowboys and he lived it and he kind of had a very interesting life on his own.

Susan Friedland: 49:25
He was not a Marguerite Henry type at all.  

Barbara O’Brien: 49:27

No, no.

Susan Friedland: 49: 28

He's like the opposite.

Barbara O’Brien: 49:29
No, he spent some time in jail, even, but very real, and he understood horses and how horses think and move better than for studying to want to be in tune with them. You know, now the practices, the things they did. You know how they broke horses wasn't necessarily kind, so you know. There's that whole what was happening at the time, but how mustangs think, how horses think, how you know he was really in tune with that and of course, being an artist, I admired his illustrations and his paintings. But as you say in your book, he was already dead at that point,

Susan Friedland: 50:00

And I think he had just passed, like maybe the year earlier.

Barbara O’Brien: 50:04
Yeah, he wasn't all that old when he passed, so he was not that old. You know story for sure. And, speaking of stories, when I read your book and I'm reading your book and I'm like this would be a great movie, I mean you should like talk to somebody to make a movie about your journey telling Margaret, because the story of Margaret all by herself is okay, but if you're like the character that tells the story or like just how the book is to me, because I wanted to be in that kayak with you, I really wanted to do that with you. I don't have producer friends, I'm sorry, I wish I did, but I really think that the way they could tell the story of Margaret is through you and then reenact all the scenes in her life. Right?

Susan Friedland: 50:44
Well, thank you. So, I have all these ideas. I'm an ideas person.

Barbara O’Brien: 50:49
Me too, I get it.

Susan Friedland: 50:50
And I have more ideas than I probably have life left, but yeah, so I have had requests of people say that I could. I can see this like a documentary. You're the first person who said a movie.

Barbara O’Brien: 51:03
Oh no, it's gotta be a movie, you know it's gotta be. Just think about who can play you and who can play Marguerite, you know.

00:51:08.876 --> 00:51:11.925
Okay. I'm not really up on the, the actors and that, but. But what was interesting is when I was on Chincoteague last year, the bookseller there at the local indie bookshop said that I should create a one-woman show about Marguerite and he said people would eat it up.

Barbara O’Brien: 51:30
Oh yeah, I can see that too.

Susan Friedland: 51:30
I can see that too. I'm not doing the show, but I could see. I mean just her story is compelling and so I take that as a huge compliment. And if you have anyone listening who is in that line of work. They can reach out to me, Susan, at saddleseekshorse.com.

Barbara O’Brien: 51:47
Yeah, this is a good segue. Let's talk about how people can find you. Let's talk about that.

Susan Friedland: 51:51
Okay, so if people love blogs and they like product reviews for horse things and my most recent blog post was like a collection of 21 horse themed books.

Barbara O’Brien: 52:02

Yeah, I saw that.

Susan Friedland: 52:03
I have a blog. It's called saddleseeks s-e- e- k- s horsecom and then on there they can also that can refer to them to my saddleseekshorse.shop, which is my Shopify store where I sell my books. My books are available on the online sellers, but it's kind of special to be able to sell direct to readers because then I can personalize if I'm getting an order and.

Barbara O’Brien: 52:29

I know it was fun for me because you know I got to get to it, but it was fun. I got a little note from you which I loved, but you know you signed the book. It's so nice.

Susan Friedland: 52:42
Yeah thank you,

Barbara O’Brien: 52:43

Thank you and this bookmark, I was like oh, special things, it made me really happy.

Susan Friedland: 52:46
Oh, good, good, yeah, so if people want a personalized copy of my book or I have three other books, saddleseekshorse.shop, but the .com will kind of refer there if you just.

Barbara O’Brien: 52:57
Okay, and that's how people can reach you?  How can they reach you if they want to have you talk about your book or learn more?

Susan Friedland: 53:01
So that will. Um, so I'm on Instagram and Facebook. I do prefer email is like my preferred. It's susan@saddleseekshorse.com. And I do. I have done a lot of speaking and that's kind of my jam. I've spoken at the international museum of the horse in Kentucky, spoken at historical societies. I'd love to do more with schools, especially my background as an educator. I just had a conversation yesterday with a curriculum director for a school district because I think there's a lot, even if you know, I understand the entire population of the world is not horse-centric like I am.

Barbara O’Brien: 53:40
What?

Susan Friedland: 53:39
But in Marguerite. I know. Barbara, it's true,

Barbara O’Brien: 53:43

What?

Susan Friedland: 53:44
Okay, no, but in Marguerite, Misty, and Me, I just feel like Marguerite had such like like I wanted to learn her best practices because she's a Newbery medal winning author, and I want to be a better writer, you know. And also, um, research, because I I remember in like the last year or two of teaching this, you know if I had a dollar for every time, I asked a kid okay, well, what source did you use? And they'd say google, and I said no, Google's not a source, you do understand, it's a search engine. The source is the article, and where did it come from?  Yeah, so, um, I feel like there's a need out there, and so I kind of want to. I have a lot of ideas, but I have a stump speech that I give at libraries and historical societies in that, but my goal moving forward and I do have a young reader version of Marguerite, Misty, and Me coming out, because I was asked to speak at the Chincoteague elementary school and I was so excited because I was asked to speak at the Chincoteague Elementary School, and I was so excited because I was back in the classroom and I thought, oh, my book is too hard for them. It's over 60,000 words that I wrote you know. So, I'm right now in the middle of revisions for a young reader version.

Barbara O’Brien: 54:55
Great.Susan Friedland: 54:57
Because I have yeah, I've had people. You know I go to Briar Fest. I'm going to be at the um Defender Kentucky three-day event here coming up, and so sometimes what'll happen is people see the cover, they see cute Misty and they're like, oh, I want to get this for my granddaughter, like who's eight? Well, my book, not that it's, there's nothing in there that's offensive.

Barbara O’Brien: 55: 16
No, certainly not, but it's just more pictures, and yeah, you know, yeah.

Susan Friedland: 55:20
Yeah, yeah, not the right grade level. So, anyway, that's my long-winded way of saying susan@saddleseekshorse.com.  But I'm also active on Instagram and Facebook and it's at SaddleSeeksHorsecom

Barbara O’Brien: 55:34

Yep, I found you through. That's how I found you. I was like oh my gosh, I got to get the book. Oh, I got to get her on my podcast.  I got to talk to her about this.

Susan Friedland: 55:41
Well, thank, you.

Barbara O’Brien: 55: 42
All-time favorite author of my favorite books. And then your book, like I said, was a delight and I'm grateful for that,

Susan Friedland: 55:47

Thank you.

Barbara O’Brien: 55:48
We'll have all these links and things on the show notes as well.

Susan Friedland: 55:53
I appreciate that. Thank you.

(Music) 55:55

Barbara O’Brien: 55:59
Well, this is the part of the show that we call Snack Break. So, if you were here we'd be having, you know, triple chocolate, real Wisconsin butter, eggs from my very own hen's brownies.

Susan Friedland: 56:09

Yum.

Barbara O’Brien: 56:10
You're not that far away, you know. I mean, it's Chicago, it's only like six hours.

Susan Friedland: 56:12
I know, and you know what, you're not far from my friend Rebecca Hart, who has Chincoteague ponies.

Barbara O’Brien: 56:19
Well, I think we're going to talk.

Susan Friedland: 56:21
She's in Minnesota, yeah.  

Barbara O’Brien: 56:23
We're going to talk afterwards. I might have to get some B-roll for this podcast. I might have to go have some, some Chincoteagues, so we'll we'll talk afterwards about, about finding her, because I think that'd be delightful to see them.  I mean, I could actually see one, that would be so.

Susan Friedland: 56:34

Oh yeah, okay.

Barbara O’Brien: 56:35

Okay. So, what we do is we have a it's the snack break, but also we ask the questions. And the questions we stole from another writer, Tim Ferriss, in his book called Tribe of Mentors. But I really like these questions because then we get to know you even a little bit more, and it's just, it's fun. Okay, so we sent you like 20 questions and out of them you chose these five, right?  

Susan Friedland: 56:57
And I forgot which ones I chose.

Barbara O’Brien: 56:58
That's the best part.

Susan Friedland: 57:00
I hope I chose ones that are easy to answer.

Barbara O’Brien: 57: 02
Oh, you got this. All right. What book would you recommend, and why?

Susan Friedland; 57:10
Well, okay, obviously Misty of Chincoteague and Marguerite, Misty, and Me. But I would say for overall life.  I am a Christian, so I would say the Bible. There's so much wisdom in there.

Barbara O’Brien: 57:22
That's really cool.

Susan Friedland: 57:23
Yeah, there's a lot of people that I feel you know, as we're more advanced with technology and all that, and I feel like there's less joy and less peace, and so maybe the book of Proverbs from the Bible.

Barbara O’Brien: 57:38
Well, I'm with you.  We just joined a church. I don't want to get into it too much, but we just joined a church that we found, and we fit really well, and this one happens to be fairly Bible-based and the pastor gave me a Bible companion book that is this thick, right, but it explains things right, so I'm getting great joy out of just understanding it better. So that's an offshoot, but I'm with you. That's a great book.

Susan Friedland: 58:04
That's cool.

Barbara O’Brien: 58:06
Yeah, all right, do you have a mentor, and what did the person help you discover about yourself?

Susan Friedland: 58:11
Oh, my goodness. Well, I've had many mentors throughout the course of my life. Um, in a way, Marguerite has been my mentor, even though she's passed, and just the fact that I, like I said earlier, I want to learn from her best practices with writing, and so some of the techniques which people can read about Marguerite, Misty, and Me, and just I feel like she was a go-getter in an era when things were not as easy for women and she just, you know, would have an idea and she would go for it. And so, I feel like, in a way, I want to be safe, you know, I want to be practical, I want to be safe, and so I don't know she, she lived with a lot of joy and really made people feel cared about, and so I would like to be that. And obviously, in my teaching career I had mentor teachers who really helped me with some of the things that when you're going through the certification program, it doesn't really tell you what to do, you know at 2.55 on a Friday afternoon when you've got a bunch of ADD boys in your room and stuff and then also just riding, you know different. When I boarded my horse at a farm in Southern California before I moved back here to the Midwest, there was one of these very wise horsemen who's lived, breathed horses for decades and decades, and I got to spend a lot of time with him. And just hear stories of, you know, just riding adventures he'd been on. He had racehorses, he played polo, he three-day evented, he owned a horse that was in the Olympics. Like he's just a solid horseman, and he was very encouraging to me to kind of in a way, with the Marguerite thing, to just kind of go for things Cause I'm, I don't want to say I'm a timid rider, but I I'm always thinking about like okay, well, what could happen? I'm always like I'm a very safety-first kind of person. So, I want to ride, but I don't want to ride really fast, for a long time. Maybe like a few strides a can are extended, but um so he just yeah, so I've had a number of mentors.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:00:42
That's really cool. All right, uh, I think I know the answer to this, but cause with every horse person, I know this one, I know this one. Uh, unless you surprise me, where do you go or what do you do to recharge your batteries?

Susan Friedland: 1:00:58
Uh, well, I would say, yeah, the barn is my happy place. I board my horse and it's a lovely, uh, family-owned facility and, uh, thankfully they have a heated indoor arena. But it's you know; I just derive a lot of pleasure from spending time with my horse. Even he had an abscess recently so I couldn't ride him, but it's just, he's like a golden retriever and he's my best friend and I just love grooming him.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:01:30

Oh, for sure.  

Susan Friedland: 1:01:31

And hanging out with him, and he's got kissing spine, which is a condition that, um, is kind of like. I don't horse people will know what it is. I'm thinking there's probably non horse people listening.  It's a condition that can be limiting and some horses, uh, might need to be retired. Other horses can push through it with certain types of like physical therapy type things, and so it depends on. I do all these, right, yeah, and I do all these, like all these, right yeah, and I do all these like stretches and that my equine vet, who is also like a chiropractor as well, so I do all these things and it takes. So, it takes me a long time, like before I can actually get to the riding part.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:02:11
Oh yeah.

Susan Friedland: 1:02:12

I'm done riding. I do like I put a heating pad on his back, and I do these tail tugs and all these things. So, but I like that because it makes me feel like I'm helping him feel better. And then when I see the results and him using his body more properly and being more relaxed, it just makes me feel good.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:02:31
Well, he sounds like a lucky horse, and I think it's really true. I have seven horses and it wasn't until last month when a horse kind of fell into my lap another little Morgan gelding.  I hadn't had a horse to ride for two years, couldn't ride cause, uh, my riding horse, um died. And then I had three young ones that I won't ride till they're five, um, so that's a whole nother podcast, a whole nother adventure getting those guys from Montana. But, uh, and then three old rescue mares that came lame so that they've been here 10, 12 years now each, but they're just so. Yes, you brush them and you, you know, you play at them, and you do groundwork, and you just enjoy them, and I fed all seven of them. This morning, I put a picture on my Facebook page like here's my happy place, cause they're all lined up against the fence eating. It was just like, you know, just being around them. Um are so healing for all of us around them, um are so healing for all of us. I mean, there's white, there's white, you know, we're drawn to them, it's. That's what our podcast is about. Is is how we are connected to animals and so you connect to them.

Susan Friedland: 1:03:28

And I have to say too, not to cut you off, but, um, okay, so my horse, um, you know, is in a field all day long with three other horses, and when I show up and then he sees me, and then he walks up, you know, I just say hi, Knight, and like he approaches me and it's like, okay, he could be hanging out with his friends, he could be eating the hay, or when there's grass, you know there's not a lot of grass.  

Barbara O’Brien: 1:03:51
You see, you put relationship before horsemanship, like you've built the relationship with him. That's why he's happy to come to you. So, you've built relationship before horsemanship and that's what works. Warwick Schiller one of the guys that really worked on attunement and helping people learn um talks about see, so he's a very lucky horse. You know that he has that relationship with you. But I mean, how could he not like you?

Susan Friedland: 1:04:18

Well, I, you know, I think okay. So, a little backstory. If any of your fans are into horse racing, my horse is a very famous sire. Tis Now, is the only horse to have won the Breeders' Cup Classic, twice.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:04:32

Wow, okay.

Susan Friedland: 1:04:33
And so he's a record holder. He's a legend. He just turned 27.  He's in Lexington, he's retired from stud duty, but he's just this gorgeous horse that you know, and I would love to write a book about him. Actually.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:04:45
Yeah.

Susan Friedland: 1:04:46
But okay. So, my horse looks just like him.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:04:48

Cool.

Susan Friedland: 1:04:49

Like if they were doing a, he could be a stunt double, however zero competitive drive. And so, I looked up his race record. He won one race, and the rest was very mediocre. They didn't race him very long because they thought this isn't his thing, and I thought, you know, my horse is maybe a little smarter, because he realized it's better to be owned by a middle-aged woman who will coddle me and have out the equine. You know acupuncturist and have, you know, do all the things. So.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:05:23
Yeah, no, he's a lucky horse. He's where he's supposed to be. That's pretty cool, okay, what inspires and motivates you to do what you do? What is your true purpose in the world?

Susan Friedland: 1:05:34
Well, I, I love learning you know my background education. I love helping people learn. I love reading. I don't know, I just love horses, and I don't know that I have a really great answer. But you know the things I'm passionate about I want to share with people. So, it was a natural fit. When I wanted to learn about who Marguerite Henry was, I was like I got to tell my friends too, because they're going to also love learning these fun stories about her.  You know, bringing a pony into her house and having birthday parties for Misty in her backyard. So, I like to. I'm a storyteller at heart. I guess.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:06:17
That's a great thing, that's a great thing. Okay, and then we did talk about this do you have a favorite animal companion?

Susan Friedland: 1:06:24
Yes, Knight, Tiz A Knight, he's beautiful, he's got a long forelock and he's a cribber and I've tried all kinds of things but he's 16, three, dark bay, he's, he's I think he's beautiful and he's just so sweet. They’ve, they've told me at the barn and they're like he's kind of like a golden retriever.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:06:45
My new horse, Teddy sharp. He's a Morgan, um, uh, is 18 years old. So, he he's really well trained and, uh, he just came about a month ago.  So, I let him have a whole month to just decompress and learn about being at the new place.  And I have six mares who adore him. They just think he's the best. And, you know, he's kind of like all right, all righty, you know, but he's fitting in really, really well. And I finally did, after doing some groundwork and just letting him know that we were going to be okay, and I bring him into my outdoor arena and he'd just like lay down and roll in the sand. He and I bring him into my outdoor arena and he'd just like lay down and roll in the sand. He was so content, felt so safe. It was really good. He was giving me like I'm going to be okay, we're going to be okay, you know. So finally, last week I rode him, and I realized that my saddle was too wide, so it wasn't fitting properly, so I just got it on bareback. I tell you I was 16 again. It just brought back so much, because he’s such a good boy and so smooth and I’m a confident rider, and it was just like.  You know, you, this is why we have our horses, you know, part of it is that it's timeless for us.  You know I'm going to be riding what you know, queen Elizabeth. I mean, she rode forever, right. You know and you're just like that could be me. You know I'm going to do that, or at least have them around, because I can't be who I am without them. You know, yes, do you feel like you cannot be who you are without your horse? Just he's having horses. Being a horse person, that's just part of who you are.

Susan Friedland: 1:08:07

Yeah, well, that's how my blog was born saddle seeks horse because I was in between horses for about four years.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:08:13
That's a hard spot.

Susan Friedland: 1:08:15
I had relocated, and it was like during the era, like right after the recession, and like the teachers, like at my school district, we got a pay decrease and so it's like, okay, I'm living in Orange County, California. At the time, pay decrease had just bought like the worst house on the best street and like I don't know how I'm going to have horses in my life for a while, and so I was trying to find a place to take riding lessons because that seems like a good place to start. I mean, I've had horses, I've shown like you know, I'm not starting out, beginner, beginner. But it was really hard to connect into the horse world.  So I started my blog because I had the saddle from my horse who had colicked and passed away, and now I was in between, so I'd walk past the saddle in my garage every day when I got home from work and it just was like I've got this saddle and of course I then finally found Knight and the saddle didn't fit him at all.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:09:14
No, but the point is you're still there.

Susan Friedland: 1:09:16
Yeah, so, but that having that saddle there was part of my identity, it was like, even though it was sad, it's like this is who I truly am.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:09:25

Oh I, you know.

Susan Friedland: 1:09:26

I like I play tennis and I don't like doing other stuff and swing dancing, but it was like the horse part of me. It feels like the real me not that the other parts of the fake me, but it's just like the essence.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:09:40
No, yeah, I totally get that.  Because I had horse.  Well, Kevin, my husband and I, we eloped so I could have a horse. So, we eloped because this farm where my mentor lived her apartment above her farmhouse opened up and she said you can live in the apartment. I'm 19 and I'm like, oh, that's great, I can live where the horse I ride. You know, I can live on the farm. That's all I've ever wanted, live on the farm. And she said, well, but you and Kevin have to get married. You can't play house here, because this was 1981 and there was not going to be any of that. You know, you've got to be married, Kevin, you want to get married. We've been dating a year, and we were still married. So, I'm really lucky. And we didn't have kids until seven years later. So that was really good. Had to grow up. But you know, dang it. We moved in, had the horse. You know, my horse Babe, my first, Morgan, that you know. I bought her for $250, you know, and I had to give her $25 a month in check. You know, $25 a month payments. But uh, you know, it was like heaven and so, anyway then, for we had horses, whatever, and then we had to move to town Cause, let's see, we had three kids by then. I was pregnant with my third child and I couldn't afford horses anymore, you know, and um had to sell our farm you know that we were living on and we'd moved back to my hometown, south St Paul, Minnesota, and, uh, we lived there for 10 years, but after like just a year or two, I'm pregnant with a third child and I would go drive to by the stable that was a few miles away, five miles away, and I cry like watch the girls ride their horses. You know, of course, because I'm like, I'm like I, this, I I never suffered depression. I mean, I barely understand depression, like when people are really, you know, severely depressed. I, I only had a small glimpse of what it felt like, because I've been really blessed, but I had this, you know, like this was awful. It wasn't who I was, and right after the baby was born, and it was when horses were super expensive, nobody, you know you. Just, I mean, you got three kids. You're, you know your. You know my husband was working as a house painter and, um, I was my animal actor trainer, but it was always part-time, it was never enough money, um, you know, some of my friends said to me the Dodge Nature Center is giving away a horse. They don't want to have it anymore. It’s not the breed they want. You want a horse. And I'm like, well, yeah. And my husband was like, how can we feed this? We can't afford it, we can't board it. And I said and this was from you, said you're a Christian, this was God's not. You know what I mean? A voice in my head, sort of like God doesn't send you horses without sending you hay, so he's not going to give me this horse unless he gives me the means to pay for the hay. You know, like this was a miracle, I'm going to accept it. He knows what I need. He's going to take care of me, right? So, uh, my friend who told me about the horse said well, you can just keep them at my place. I've got a pasture. I'm not going to charge you board, you can just keep them there.

Susan Friedland: 1:12:18
Oh, I love that.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:12:21
So that was cowboy. He was a Mustang of all things right. And so, my nieces, who were cause my children, was too small yet my nieces, who were teenagers, early tweens, would ride with me, and sometimes we'd ride double, you know, just for a little bit, so that we could each have a turn, you know, and then I'd put another one on and we'd ride whatever.  And then it got to be like, well, let's write to these Arab breeders and Morgan horse breeders and see if they have any old horses they want to retire because we can give them a home.  So, the girls wrote letters and they each got a horse. We got three horses.

Susan Friedland: 1:12:48
What?

Barbara O’Brien: 1:12:49
Yep.

Susan Friedland: 1:12:50

That's amazing.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:12:51
Yep, so dollar horses, right. So, then their parents would pay board and the girls would. So then by that time now we're like between them. And then I acquired a horse for my son to ride. You know, another horse. Suddenly you're boarding five horses, right. As the years went by and you're in 4-H, you're doing all this stuff. This is Dakota County, it was great, Minnesota. I said, Kevin, we got to buy a farm, so 20 years ago. You know we bought where we are here in Stockholm, Wisconsin, and I am never leaving. I love it so much. And I cause I was only horseless for, you know, a few years from when I got my first horse at 19, although I was riding before that.  But like I cannot be horseless, it takes away who I am. So long story short, but I totally get what you're saying.

Susan Friedland: 1:13:34
Yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:13:35

And that's why horse people, do you recognize them? You go somewhere and you see a horse girl. You know a horse woman, horse person.

Susan Friedland: 1:13:40
Oh, yeah.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:13:41
And it's like she's not even dressed. You know she's not wearing barn stuff necessarily, but you just know, because of the way she carries herself, how strong she is, how sure she is of herself, cause horses do that for girls, I really think. Of course, men too, but you know, and then, like Ariat's the boots will give it away and you'll be like, oh, you're right, yeah, right, you know, we recognize each other, just like service members can recognize each other. Okay, well, this has been a really fun conversation. I feel like a fangirl, because I was so excited to speak to you about your book.

Susan Friedland: 1:14:14
Oh, thank you.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:14:15
I want to read your other books too. You have a good book. Please help me with the title about when you lose a horse.  What was the title of that book?

Susan Friedland: 1:14:22
Oh yeah, Strands of Hope: How to Grieve the Loss of a Horse. It's a book that I feel so sad when people order it because it's like, oh no, I'm glad because I get a little sale, but then it's like, oh, someone's hurting and grieving.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:14:36
It's helpful because to be understood, you know to be heard and understood means so much. So that's probably another podcast. We're probably just going to have to go into that one.

Susan Friedland: 1:14:43
Okay. I'll come back.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:14:46
Really helpful.

Susan Friedland: 1:14:47

I'll make sure I have my, uh, my tissue box.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:14:50
Well, yeah, Cause the age I am, you know we've had horses come and go, it just that's life right. But I've got these three youngsters and the oldsters and now my new guy, Teddy Sharp. It's pretty wonderful, Thank you. Thank you so much, Susan.

Susan Friedland: 1:15:05
Thank you.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:15:06

Thank you for giving us all this time. And I just want to say thank you for being here.

Susan Friedland: 1:15:12
Thank you for having me. It was fun to get to know you more, Barbara, and I hope our paths cross in real life, because I love Wisconsin. And I do.  Also, I rode when I was telling you when I was horseless and then I finally found a barn when I was living in Orange County. The horse I got to ride was a Sorrel Morgan mare named Rio.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:15:32

Love it.

Susan Friedland: 1:15:33

And she had this and I thought like I'm 5'9" so I'm like there's no way, because this horse is small, I'm gonna look like I outgrew a pony and all that. She became my favorite and had the smoothest canter, was not marish at all, and then another Morgan named Morgana, who was even shorter. She and I'm friends with her owner to this day but she was able to be one of the lesson horses and I loved her too and it was like this is a cool breed. So I have a sister who's retiring from teaching and she thinks Knight is too tall he's 16'3" and so I told her I'm like you should look into Morgan's. But I don't know that there's a lot around where we are, so we'll have to talk offline about that.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:16:17

Oh, for sure. Yeah, I went to Montana to find mine because I wanted the foundation ranch working horses. But boy, I love them. I love their temperament. They are the border collies of the horse world. It's like give me a job, I am so willing to be your partner. It's, it's. They're pretty amazing.

Susan Friedland: 1:16:32
So that's cool.

Barbara O’Brien: 1:16:33
Thank you again.

Susan Friedland: 1:16:34
Thank you, yeah, thank you, Barbara, appreciate it.

(Music) 1:16:37